ovrtake92

All the instructors I ever encountered in my lakes tenor where top notch guys. I never really saw too much of the furious fail rates or unsympathetic, scornful, diabolical instruction as is the reputation. I suppose they were a little unwavering to the non-hackers but I've seen that down the line in my career as well. A rigid training department is the backbone of a safe flight operation and I think GLA has had a pretty solid reputation for keeping airframes in tact in a challenging environment. Few exceptions noted. Now as for this 135 business...damn cockroach

USMCFLYR

Not necessarily.
At different time the military flight training programs have often had high washout rates and certain military specialities have high washout rates.
The training is TOP NOTCH.
Not everyone can succeed, not everyone gets to play first string and not everyone gets a trophy and it isn't always the companies or training program's fault.

tom11011

What is the point of hassling Great Lakes? You might as well be hassling flight schools that fly aztecs over seminoles. They are not really an airline anymore so there is no point in dissecting them.

CBreezy

This post is a joke. The military has a high washout rate because you're learning to fly a turbo prop/jet from square one to include aerobatics and formation flying. Then, at less than 400 total hours, you learn how to deploy a weapon system with flying secondary.

GLA is a pax carrying airline. If there is a high washout, the training is poor or the candidates are poor.

Cubdriver

What's really going on is they let just about anyone play their game which is a huge disservice to the many who fail at that game. 1900s are only slightly harder to fly than King Airs, but the failure rate being this high means something is wrong with recruiting, training, or both. And we know what it is- Great Lakes is cheap, cheap, cheap. U.S. armed services are not so cheap by contrast. They have exotic aircraft and tough programs to fly them causing substantial washouts, but selection and training are first rate and sheer cheapness is not the reason. This company in contrast lures wannabees who really do not know they are incapable of flying airliners because there was (is) a glut of civilian pilot wannabees out there wanting to try, encourages leaving paid jobs in many cases, supplies false hope they'll be the minority who pass, pays zip while they donate their time, lets them pay for their own travel and other expenses during training, and then some number of weeks later calls a cab that it will not pay for either to get them home. It's not the same thing. Quality airline training departments do not exceed 10% failure.

Cubdriver

Agree, and you beat me to it. Not the same thing at all as military. Lakers have come on here for years saying Lakes training is ok for what it is, but way too brief. Others have said the initial interview is pretty much a cake walk, supporting the notion they do not really screen the applicants carefully.

USMCFLYR

And you are both looking at the post only through the source of GLA.
I look at the members post in a broader sense of anything training program that has high washouts rates = poor training.
I disagree.
If talking about ONLY GLA training - I'll reserve judgment because I've not gone through GLA's training program; but if it is 'military style boot camp' as one poster recalls, then I can relate.

Was bernouli only referencing GLA's training or is this how he feels about a relationship between high washout rates and poor training programs in general? Bernouli?

bernouli

I was referencing GLA and other 121/135 airlines like it.

skypilot35

As a former Laker, I can attest to the the difficulty of the training. It's fast paced and there is not a lot of time allotted, especially in the simulator to repeat profiles or maneuvers. That being said, we had twelve in our initial class and eleven of us made it through. This was two years ago. The instructors were professional and had no desire to see anybody fail, but they were limited by the constraint of time ($$$ for the sim). The fact of the matter is that the majority of pilots, given the opportunity to hand fly an aircraft, without an autopilot or GPS, from VOR to VOR, can do it. Lakers do it day in and day out, and consequently develop a terrific scan. I think its a perishable skill and if you are not using it everyday, you lose it.

spaaks

Just a few years ago they were having classes of 11 and 3 were getting through, that means the training program is broken!

Hopefully their training costs to get all the 135 wet commercial guys online will be astronomical