Cirrus Aviation has Immediate Openings
12-25-2019, 03:08 PM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 162
[QUOTE=flyingLV;2945062]
Repeatedly saying that we are forced to work on our days off does not make it true. You can say it over and over again, but you do not work for this company and you have no knowledge of how we operate. You have not seen any of our internal documents that clearly lay out all of your concerns (pay, days off, benefits, etc.) I will say that you must volunteer to work on your days off, there is no strong arming pilots into working extra days. You are plainly asked and if you say no, YOU GET ALL YOUR DAYS OFF, no questions asked. If you want to see these documents, apply! They are given to everyone in the interview, and every current pilot has a copy.
You have already voiced your displeasure of signing training contracts. The confession of judgement is a last resort and its spelled out in the language of the document under what circumstances it will be exercised. It is explicitly tied to the training contract, and once that contract expires, so does the COJ (far from your theory of. The COJ only enforces the contract you should have had every intention of upholding. What makes training unique is that there is no collateral like you would with a car loan so unfortunately the only restitution is repayment. Maybe that will change in the future, but for the time being that is the case. Telling an actual lawyer that he missed a day in law school because he was sharing his view that its common to use COJs in Nevada to enforce contracts was pretty out of line. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you need to insult them.
There is not a single fake account on this thread associated with Cirrus. Why are you surprised that the majority of us enjoy our job and would like to come on here to defend it, especially when so much misinformation has been propagated. For the past 2 years I have worked at cirrus and I have not been lied to once. Cirrus seems like a completely different company than the one I originally signed up to work for, the fact that they are constantly making improvements and listening to pilot concerns is reason I stayed.
This is a great career, there is nothing like it. For me this is a second career and my worst day is still better than my best day in my former life. I think we should be finding ways to make every operator better so they can create as many of these flying jobs as possible, not try and tear every other company besides our own apart.
False-your own former employees have called you out repeatedly. Your company steals pilots hotel points. Why would anyone believe a word you say? Well I guessed they have to if you have a confession of judgement over there head. Why do you all continue to argue with me I’m sure there’s thousands of applicants that feel I’m full of **** and are lined up around the corner to work for Cirrus. Right?.
Originally Posted by LLWS09R
Repeatedly saying that we are forced to work on our days off does not make it true. You can say it over and over again, but you do not work for this company and you have no knowledge of how we operate. You have not seen any of our internal documents that clearly lay out all of your concerns (pay, days off, benefits, etc.) I will say that you must volunteer to work on your days off, there is no strong arming pilots into working extra days. You are plainly asked and if you say no, YOU GET ALL YOUR DAYS OFF, no questions asked. If you want to see these documents, apply! They are given to everyone in the interview, and every current pilot has a copy.
You have already voiced your displeasure of signing training contracts. The confession of judgement is a last resort and its spelled out in the language of the document under what circumstances it will be exercised. It is explicitly tied to the training contract, and once that contract expires, so does the COJ (far from your theory of. The COJ only enforces the contract you should have had every intention of upholding. What makes training unique is that there is no collateral like you would with a car loan so unfortunately the only restitution is repayment. Maybe that will change in the future, but for the time being that is the case. Telling an actual lawyer that he missed a day in law school because he was sharing his view that its common to use COJs in Nevada to enforce contracts was pretty out of line. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you need to insult them.
There is not a single fake account on this thread associated with Cirrus. Why are you surprised that the majority of us enjoy our job and would like to come on here to defend it, especially when so much misinformation has been propagated. For the past 2 years I have worked at cirrus and I have not been lied to once. Cirrus seems like a completely different company than the one I originally signed up to work for, the fact that they are constantly making improvements and listening to pilot concerns is reason I stayed.
This is a great career, there is nothing like it. For me this is a second career and my worst day is still better than my best day in my former life. I think we should be finding ways to make every operator better so they can create as many of these flying jobs as possible, not try and tear every other company besides our own apart.
12-25-2019, 03:10 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 162
[QUOTE=Fly604LV;2945067]
So you have first hand knowledge of them forcing pilots to fly past FAA required days off per quarter? That’s a pretty strong accusation.
I can tell you 100% that has never happened.
You said in an earlier post your mission is to help pilots. How is spreading inaccurate information getting that done?
If you’re going to give negative information at least be sure it’s true.
Yep. I’m sure the resumes are rolling in as we speak!
Originally Posted by LLWS09R
So you have first hand knowledge of them forcing pilots to fly past FAA required days off per quarter? That’s a pretty strong accusation.
I can tell you 100% that has never happened.
You said in an earlier post your mission is to help pilots. How is spreading inaccurate information getting that done?
If you’re going to give negative information at least be sure it’s true.
12-25-2019, 03:18 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by ESQ702
LLWS09R are a lot of fun at parties. Hopefully keeping hotel points keeps you two happy.
I'll let you two have the last word to make you feel better. I'm out on this one.
I'll let you two have the last word to make you feel better. I'm out on this one.
12-25-2019, 04:43 PM
#145
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 15
[QUOTE=LLWS09R;2945100]
False-your own former employees have called you out repeatedly. Your company steals pilots hotel points. Why would anyone believe a word you say? Well I guessed they have to if you have a confession of judgement over there head. Why do you all continue to argue with me I’m sure there’s thousands of applicants that feel I’m full of **** and are lined up around the corner to work for Cirrus. Right?.
They don’t steal points. This is known when you get hired how it works. They also don’t hesitate to give free hotel rooms when you ask for them. It’s also in the works to change to giving the pilot the points. We’ll see.
I hope you have no aspirations of going to a major airline as you don’t get your hotel points there either.
Some of the pilots have been positive some negative. You seem to gravitate toward the negative as true and positive being false.
Originally Posted by flyingLV
False-your own former employees have called you out repeatedly. Your company steals pilots hotel points. Why would anyone believe a word you say? Well I guessed they have to if you have a confession of judgement over there head. Why do you all continue to argue with me I’m sure there’s thousands of applicants that feel I’m full of **** and are lined up around the corner to work for Cirrus. Right?.
I hope you have no aspirations of going to a major airline as you don’t get your hotel points there either.
Some of the pilots have been positive some negative. You seem to gravitate toward the negative as true and positive being false.
12-25-2019, 04:44 PM
#146
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by LLWS09R
Believe it or not I’m tired of this Forum too. Any pilot wanting to work at Cirrus good luck! Where do I send my resume??
Maybe we can get real info out there now for truly interested pilots looking at Cirrus.
12-26-2019, 05:27 AM
#148
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 66
If nothing comes of this, at least prospective new hires can use this thread as part of their due diligence process and are aware of the potential perils of signing a one sided confession of judgement (as I am sure that a vast majority of pilots have never heard of this). A confession of judgement should leave a "buyer beware" impression on the new hire when it comes to employment contracts. Again, if some other (can't speak for all as I don't know) aviation companies in NV (where a confession of judgement is legal) do not require one, why does Cirrus insist on one. All companies face the same pilot retention issues and challenges that Cirrus does.
It seems if Cirrus wants to attract pilots, retain them, and make it the 135 charter place to work in NV, then I think doing away with the confession of judgement would be a good faith effort on their part.
Good luck to all.
It seems if Cirrus wants to attract pilots, retain them, and make it the 135 charter place to work in NV, then I think doing away with the confession of judgement would be a good faith effort on their part.
Good luck to all.
12-26-2019, 03:27 PM
#149
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,507
A 'confession of judgment' (also called a cognovit note but not to be confused with a consent judgment) is a document signed by a borrower that waives the right to due process if a debt is unpaid. The term "confession of judgment" or consent decree, means that the signer confesses and accepts the judgment (the decision of the court). This confession of judgment might also be a personal guarantee, in which the borrower pledges personal funds if the loan isn't repaid.
If you sign a confession of judgment, you are basically saying you automatically admit that you broke the contract. The penalty written into the contract can be imposed on you without any opportunity to tell your side or reach a compromise. It's like confessing you killed someone without getting a chance to have a trial.
Confessions of Judgment are Under State Law
'Confession of judgment' language is part of a loan agreement, specifically in a promissory note. This language is regulated by states. Not many states (including Florida) allow confession of judgment language, but New York, where the Tampa couple's loan company had its main office, does.
Some states allow confessions of judgment in limited areas; Pennsylvania, for example, allows confession of judgment clauses in commercial (business transactions). Sometimes the state law allows a period of time (30 days, for example) to allow the debtor to file motions and work out a repayment plan.
If you sign a confession of judgment, you are basically saying you automatically admit that you broke the contract. The penalty written into the contract can be imposed on you without any opportunity to tell your side or reach a compromise. It's like confessing you killed someone without getting a chance to have a trial.
Confessions of Judgment are Under State Law
'Confession of judgment' language is part of a loan agreement, specifically in a promissory note. This language is regulated by states. Not many states (including Florida) allow confession of judgment language, but New York, where the Tampa couple's loan company had its main office, does.
Some states allow confessions of judgment in limited areas; Pennsylvania, for example, allows confession of judgment clauses in commercial (business transactions). Sometimes the state law allows a period of time (30 days, for example) to allow the debtor to file motions and work out a repayment plan.
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-i...dgment-4580193
It’s Official, The Confession of Judgment Era is Over
June 19, 2019 | By: Sean Murray FEATURE STORY
COJ TombstoneThe New York State legislature passed a bill (S06395) late Thursday night that effectively eliminates Confessions of Judgment (COJ) in the small business finance industry.
The Senate voted in favor 61-1.
The Assembly voted in favor 83-43.
The new law which goes into effect immediately after Governor Andrew Cuomo signs it, prohibits anyone from filing a COJ against a party that does not reside in New York State. That means if a small business or individual resides in any state that isn’t New York, you cannot file a COJ against them in New York. This matters greatly because 99% of all COJs industry-wide were being filed in New York due to the incredible ease and speed that New York Courts offer to turn those into valid judgments.
Debtors that reside in New York can still be subjected to New York COJs.
A particular sensational story series published by Bloomberg Businessweek created the impetus to change how such New York judgments by confession might impact out-of-state residents. The names of the Bloomberg reporters are written into the Bill’s official memo in the footnotes, memorializing for all time how this law came to be.
Within the small business finance industry, the percentage of funders that required a Confession of Judgment as a condition of their financing was relatively small. And their usage has been limited since COJs were only first introduced as a potential risk mitigation tool on merchant cash advances five years ago in 2014. However, Bloomberg News estimated that COJs have resulted in more than $1 billion in collective judgments over the years, mostly against non-New York businesses.
June 19, 2019 | By: Sean Murray FEATURE STORY
COJ TombstoneThe New York State legislature passed a bill (S06395) late Thursday night that effectively eliminates Confessions of Judgment (COJ) in the small business finance industry.
The Senate voted in favor 61-1.
The Assembly voted in favor 83-43.
The new law which goes into effect immediately after Governor Andrew Cuomo signs it, prohibits anyone from filing a COJ against a party that does not reside in New York State. That means if a small business or individual resides in any state that isn’t New York, you cannot file a COJ against them in New York. This matters greatly because 99% of all COJs industry-wide were being filed in New York due to the incredible ease and speed that New York Courts offer to turn those into valid judgments.
Debtors that reside in New York can still be subjected to New York COJs.
A particular sensational story series published by Bloomberg Businessweek created the impetus to change how such New York judgments by confession might impact out-of-state residents. The names of the Bloomberg reporters are written into the Bill’s official memo in the footnotes, memorializing for all time how this law came to be.
Within the small business finance industry, the percentage of funders that required a Confession of Judgment as a condition of their financing was relatively small. And their usage has been limited since COJs were only first introduced as a potential risk mitigation tool on merchant cash advances five years ago in 2014. However, Bloomberg News estimated that COJs have resulted in more than $1 billion in collective judgments over the years, mostly against non-New York businesses.
12-26-2019, 03:51 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Position: Line holder
Posts: 513
Cirrus Aviation has Immediate Openings
Originally Posted by ESQ702
ESQ702 wrote: When did I ask anyone to enter into a confession of judgment?
I never wrote you asked anyone to enter a confession; you advocated they were fine under these circumstances. They are assuredly not—unless mutual. And as far as that goes, the silence is deafening—no one on any employer’s side has stepped up to say “yes, we will give our pilots the same security/guarantee we force upon them, it’s a matter of honoring our commitments.”
Until that happens, it’s one sided, bad faith, and anyone advised “it’s fine, sign it” is getting bad advice. If you’re not giving that advice, be clearer, since that’s how your posts read.
[/QUOTE]
ESQ702 Wrote: Stop twisting things.
[/QUOTE]
Reply:
No, twisting is when you don’t answer direct points and instead name call or mischaracterize - like your earlier post alleging “heated” opinions or your ad hominem attacks (below and above).
[/QUOTE]
ESQ702 wrote: I'm sure you and LLWS09R are a lot of fun at parties. Hopefully keeping hotel points keeps you two happy.[/QUOTE]
Reply: l don’t know LLWS09R. But reading their posts, they’re on point, and I haven’t seen any personal attack, snarkiness or (poorly executed) word-twisting from them. So given my choice of cocktail party company, sure, they’d be on my list...those engaging in the aforementioned conduct wouldn’t be.
And I don’t care about hotel points, but it’s common sense if some employers offer a bennie that others don’t, they’re disadvantaged with respect to candidates valuing that bennie. Personally l would rather have more pay than hotel miles, but each of us has to make our own value equation, every position is a balance. Employers that cut every corner in their own favor have more recruiting and retention challenges than employers that present a more compelling balance. The market will decide.
[/QUOTE]
ESQ702 Wrote: I'll let you two have the last word to make you feel better. I'm out on this one.[/QUOTE]
Reply: To paraphrase someone else in this thread, that’s the smartest thing you’ve written here. Where was that good judgment several posts ago? Your concern for our feelings is much appreciated, but the best thing you can do is probably just honor the commitment you just made.
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