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Old 08-25-2015, 12:21 PM   #2541  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRSRanger View Post
Yea, I've heard some horror stories of "back in the day", and I have absolutely no doubt they were true, because there are pricks in every line of work. I can only guess that it was because they could; for every position they had a bunch of applicants. Anymore, we need pilots, and we can't afford for people to drop from training. Thats why you go to instrument school at an independent flight school before you go to indoc, we want you to succeed. The failures I've had during line training were folks who we gave almost 4 weeks of in-aircraft training to (over 50 hours of hands on flying the line/offline flights from the left seat), and they were still making mistakes that, had I not intervened, would have resulted in a crash. (i.e. Flying a flagged glide slope, spinning the wrong radial in FAF inbound etc. not some silly procedural crap like "lights on" vs "lights set") I'm a pilot, not a management cool-aid drinker, and it really sucks to wash a fellow aviator. But I can't sign someone off for a checkride when they are routinely making fatal errors. Be ready, know your stuff, study hard, and be prepared to fly the plane from the left seat with no help from me.


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+1

The trainees I had in the BE99 that didn't make it were given 3 or 4 weeks of line training, a few offline flights and would have killed us a few times. People weren't sent home for not having textbook callouts - it was basic airmanship and instrument skills that were severely lacking and couldn't be taught well at all during line training. When the focus is how to fly X airplane the way X wants it to be flown and how to deal with the customer service aspects as well, there is no time to focus on basic IFR concepts.
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Old 08-25-2015, 01:29 PM   #2542  
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Position: Left seat bizjet
Posts: 292
Default Ameriflight

On my run we get an offline every day, with at least 2 extra approaches. On average we log 7-9 hours a week flying offline training, with no customer imposed stress. I generally sit there and let them take all the time they need to set up properly, brief departures and approaches on the ground etc. Still, the plane is a lot faster than a 172 even with the torque pulled way back, and some people just can't stay in front of the airplane. But if you are considering AMF and reading this thread, AMF has gotten much more friendly in the last few years. Still challenging flying, but we try to stack the deck in your favor. FWIW...


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Old 08-26-2015, 07:25 AM   #2543  
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Couldn't disagree with anything you guys said. Of those I trained, I probably recommended 60% for a check ride. Not everyone can do that job, and not everyone can learn in the time frame that AMF allowed. Hearing about the extra training is great.
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:54 AM   #2544  
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Just don't risk your PRIA. The AMF fail rate is 50-60%. If you want to risk your future in a cheap company with cheap planes and cheap sims, you are welcome to do so. But if you have plans to be a professional in 10 years with a good salary just stay away from AMF.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:34 PM   #2545  
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
Default Just wait

if you are at 1200 and your goal is to fly for the airlines, just WAIT the last few hours you have to build to get 1500.

life at ameriflight:
"you're home every night" - you actually start work anywhere from 5-7am and don't get home again usually till 7-8pm. just enough time for dinner and sleep. So how much were you REALLY home?? I will admit the weekends off is probably the best part of the whole gig. compared to a regional, I've been home a lot more (actually home during normal hours) than I ever was at ameriflight. Of course, gone a few weekends here and there but if your goal is a major airline, that's unavoidable in the long run.
ALSO. ameriflight life gets boring. it's really repetitive since you fly to the same city or two EVERY DAY. while doing so you spend way too much time at an outstation and get very little flight time.
At a regional you will not serve the same destination every day. yes, there are the more frequented destinations, but it will not get old nearly as fast as ameriflight will! you will also stay at nicer accomedations than ameriflight puts you at.

Benefits:
for this I will focus on flight benefits.
Now I understand not all pilots got into the profession due to free (and reduced) flights, but for others it is a big deciding factor.
while at Amerifight we were allowed jumpseat on Southwest. (I hear that now it includes ups, seabourne, mokulele, and spirit?). Anyways the point is, if you're married or have kids, WHO CARES who YOU can fly on, ameriflight does not and cannot get benefits for your wife/husband and kids. so sure, YOU flew for free (domestic only! so all your international plans are non existent!) but what about your family? also with a mon-fri when are you even supposed to fly? Friday night to Sunday?? what about longer trips?
at regionals I as well as my wife and Family ALL have benefits. we can ALL go and enjoy our domestic AND international benefits. that's not to say you might not still buy a ticket here and there like during holidays when non rev travel is nearly impossible (but not fully. I still managed to make 3 domestic trips last thanksgiving/Christmas season).

Training:
let's face it, ameriflight training is a "train yourself" type of thing. you show up to indoc and it's a week of cover everything in no particular order and don't bother asking what's on the test. they don't prep you, you prep you. I know that people these days see that as a problem but it's time for them to face it. things are never going to go back to "the good old days" when you can give young adults a book and they take care of it. these days it's the airlines job to train new hires and that's the way it's going to be. if ameriflight wants to keep talking about the past and how much better it used to be, they need to suck it up because it's not ever going back to those days. Now it's the airlines job to adjust to the decrease in performance of applying applicants. adjust their training even if it ends up taking longer to get them to standards they should be at. The new pilots will not adjust to the airlines anymore. so either pick out the few that are still like "the good old days" and keep quiet about how you can't find enough qualified/quality pilots to fill vacancies, or adjust the training schedule. It is not, unfortunately, going back to the old
days. it's time to adjust.
ameriflight just doesn't have the training department they think they do.
Regionals will have a longer training period than ameriflight (amf is usually 3-5 weeks depending on the plane). A regional will spend a week on indoc, and up to 3 weeks on systems! then up to 3 weeks on sim! this is why regional training was so easy! sure it's baby steps but it's paid better and who cares? at least you know you can pass. Also at ameriflight you hear more profanity and not work appropriate jokes than at a regional. we all do it, but regionals are more professional about it and keep it entirely out of the training environment. for comparison sake, training at ameriflight felt like going through a California public school and going through a regional is like showing up to your 400 level college course (as far as professionalism and materials to use. this does not reflect the material as far as easy or not).

pretty much think about it. is instructing really THAT BAD that you can't hold off another 300 hours? or even another 700 for those going for emb fo?? depends where you instruct, 700 isn't even another year! and 300 is only 3-4 months?
also think about it this way. should another tragedy to aviation occur, would you rather be stuck at amf for the next 8-10 years while the industry isn't hiring, or would you rather be stuck at a regional where you will eventually (not year 1 or 2, but later) make noticeably more money and have a better quality of life?

that's my 2 cents. knowing what I know now, would I have spent a year at ameriflight? simple...no. it's even been a while since I've been there and I still try and save younger pilots from making that mistake.

Last edited by piloco; 08-28-2015 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:18 PM   #2546  
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Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Left seat bizjet
Posts: 292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piloco View Post
if you are at 1200 and your goal is to fly for the airlines, just WAIT the last few hours you have to build to get 1500.

life at ameriflight:
"you're home every night" - you actually start work anywhere from 5-7am and don't get home again usually till 7-8pm. just enough time for dinner and sleep. So how much were you REALLY home?? I will admit the weekends off is probably the best part of the whole gig. compared to a regional, I've been home a lot more (actually home during normal hours) than I ever was at ameriflight. Of course, gone a few weekends here and there but if your goal is a major airline, that's unavoidable in the long run.
ALSO. ameriflight life gets boring. it's really repetitive since you fly to the same city or two EVERY DAY. while doing so you spend way too much time at an outstation and get very little flight time.
At a regional you will not serve the same destination every day. yes, there are the more frequented destinations, but it will not get old nearly as fast as ameriflight will! you will also stay at nicer accomedations than ameriflight puts you at.

Benefits:
for this I will focus on flight benefits.
Now I understand not all pilots got into the profession due to free (and reduced) flights, but for others it is a big deciding factor.
while at Amerifight we were allowed jumpseat on Southwest. (I hear that now it includes ups, seabourne, mokulele, and spirit?). Anyways the point is, if you're married or have kids, WHO CARES who YOU can fly on, ameriflight does not and cannot get benefits for your wife/husband and kids. so sure, YOU flew for free (domestic only! so all your international plans are non existent!) but what about your family? also with a mon-fri when are you even supposed to fly? Friday night to Sunday?? what about longer trips?
at regionals I as well as my wife and Family ALL have benefits. we can ALL go and enjoy our domestic AND international benefits. that's not to say you might not still buy a ticket here and there like during holidays when non rev travel is nearly impossible (but not fully. I still managed to make 3 domestic trips last thanksgiving/Christmas season).

Training:
let's face it, ameriflight training is a "train yourself" type of thing. you show up to indoc and it's a week of cover everything in no particular order and don't bother asking what's on the test. they don't prep you, you prep you. I know that people these days see that as a problem but it's time for them to face it. things are never going to go back to "the good old days" when you can give young adults a book and they take care of it. these days it's the airlines job to train new hires and that's the way it's going to be. if ameriflight wants to keep talking about the past and how much better it used to be, they need to suck it up because it's not ever going back to those days. Now it's the airlines job to adjust to the decrease in performance of applying applicants. adjust their training even if it ends up taking longer to get them to standards they should be at. The new pilots will not adjust to the airlines anymore. so either pick out the few that are still like "the good old days" and keep quiet about how you can't find enough qualified/quality pilots to fill vacancies, or adjust the training schedule. It is not, unfortunately, going back to the old
days. it's time to adjust.
ameriflight just doesn't have the training department they think they do.
Regionals will have a longer training period than ameriflight (amf is usually 3-5 weeks depending on the plane). A regional will spend a week on indoc, and up to 3 weeks on systems! then up to 3 weeks on sim! this is why regional training was so easy! sure it's baby steps but it's paid better and who cares? at least you know you can pass. Also at ameriflight you hear more profanity and not work appropriate jokes than at a regional. we all do it, but regionals are more professional about it and keep it entirely out of the training environment. for comparison sake, training at ameriflight felt like going through a California public school and going through a regional is like showing up to your 400 level college course (as far as professionalism and materials to use. this does not reflect the material as far as easy or not).

pretty much think about it. is instructing really THAT BAD that you can't hold off another 300 hours? or even another 700 for those going for emb fo?? depends where you instruct, 700 isn't even another year! and 300 is only 3-4 months?
also think about it this way. should another tragedy to aviation occur, would you rather be stuck at amf for the next 8-10 years while the industry isn't hiring, or would you rather be stuck at a regional where you will eventually (not year 1 or 2, but later) make noticeably more money and have a better quality of life?

that's my 2 cents. knowing what I know now, would I have spent a year at ameriflight? simple...no. it's even been a while since I've been there and I still try and save younger pilots from making that mistake.

Good post. I can't argue with much of that. Though I could care less if people cuss and don't act politically correct. I myself weighed whether to go to a regional or do AMF for a year. What cinched it for me was a first year W2 at Skywest etc is simply not livable for me, as I have a wife and 3 kids. At least here I can get off food stamps. This industry is incredibly volatile; even if you get hired at a "good" regional prospects can change quickly. At AMF you will get turbine PIC early in your career, and there are lots of AMF alumni well placed in the industry who look favorably on being the kind of person who can self motivate, get through training, and then fly safely in the kind of environments we fly in. I don't personally know anyone who has gone directly to a major/legacy, but In the last 6 months out of my base we had one guy leave to fly a G450, another a Hawker 800, and yet another to king air charter work.

In the end we all roll the dice, pick a path, and in 10 or 15 see if it worked out better than what the other guy choose. There are no good entry level jobs, they all suck one way or another.


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Old 08-28-2015, 01:23 PM   #2547  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnifrpilot View Post
Just don't risk your PRIA. The AMF fail rate is 50-60%. If you want to risk your future in a cheap company with cheap planes and cheap sims, you are welcome to do so. But if you have plans to be a professional in 10 years with a good salary just stay away from AMF.
I'm glad this is a shorter post than your other rant against AMF. But still no more informative.
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:54 PM   #2548  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frmrbuffdrvr View Post
I'm glad this is a shorter post than your other rant against AMF. But still no more informative.
It's pretty accurate though.
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Old 08-28-2015, 02:06 PM   #2549  
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Posts: 228
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piloco View Post
if you are at 1200 and your goal is to fly for the airlines, just WAIT the last few hours you have to build to get 1500.

life at ameriflight:
"you're home every night" - you actually start work anywhere from 5-7am and don't get home again usually till 7-8pm. just enough time for dinner and sleep. So how much were you REALLY home?? I will admit the weekends off is probably the best part of the whole gig. compared to a regional, I've been home a lot more (actually home during normal hours) than I ever was at ameriflight. Of course, gone a few weekends here and there but if your goal is a major airline, that's unavoidable in the long run.
ALSO. ameriflight life gets boring. it's really repetitive since you fly to the same city or two EVERY DAY. while doing so you spend way too much time at an outstation and get very little flight time.
At a regional you will not serve the same destination every day. yes, there are the more frequented destinations, but it will not get old nearly as fast as ameriflight will! you will also stay at nicer accomedations than ameriflight puts you at.

Benefits:
for this I will focus on flight benefits.
Now I understand not all pilots got into the profession due to free (and reduced) flights, but for others it is a big deciding factor.
while at Amerifight we were allowed jumpseat on Southwest. (I hear that now it includes ups, seabourne, mokulele, and spirit?). Anyways the point is, if you're married or have kids, WHO CARES who YOU can fly on, ameriflight does not and cannot get benefits for your wife/husband and kids. so sure, YOU flew for free (domestic only! so all your international plans are non existent!) but what about your family? also with a mon-fri when are you even supposed to fly? Friday night to Sunday?? what about longer trips?
at regionals I as well as my wife and Family ALL have benefits. we can ALL go and enjoy our domestic AND international benefits. that's not to say you might not still buy a ticket here and there like during holidays when non rev travel is nearly impossible (but not fully. I still managed to make 3 domestic trips last thanksgiving/Christmas season).

Training:
let's face it, ameriflight training is a "train yourself" type of thing. you show up to indoc and it's a week of cover everything in no particular order and don't bother asking what's on the test. they don't prep you, you prep you. I know that people these days see that as a problem but it's time for them to face it. things are never going to go back to "the good old days" when you can give young adults a book and they take care of it. these days it's the airlines job to train new hires and that's the way it's going to be. if ameriflight wants to keep talking about the past and how much better it used to be, they need to suck it up because it's not ever going back to those days. Now it's the airlines job to adjust to the decrease in performance of applying applicants. adjust their training even if it ends up taking longer to get them to standards they should be at. The new pilots will not adjust to the airlines anymore. so either pick out the few that are still like "the good old days" and keep quiet about how you can't find enough qualified/quality pilots to fill vacancies, or adjust the training schedule. It is not, unfortunately, going back to the old
days. it's time to adjust.
ameriflight just doesn't have the training department they think they do.
Regionals will have a longer training period than ameriflight (amf is usually 3-5 weeks depending on the plane). A regional will spend a week on indoc, and up to 3 weeks on systems! then up to 3 weeks on sim! this is why regional training was so easy! sure it's baby steps but it's paid better and who cares? at least you know you can pass. Also at ameriflight you hear more profanity and not work appropriate jokes than at a regional. we all do it, but regionals are more professional about it and keep it entirely out of the training environment. for comparison sake, training at ameriflight felt like going through a California public school and going through a regional is like showing up to your 400 level college course (as far as professionalism and materials to use. this does not reflect the material as far as easy or not).

pretty much think about it. is instructing really THAT BAD that you can't hold off another 300 hours? or even another 700 for those going for emb fo?? depends where you instruct, 700 isn't even another year! and 300 is only 3-4 months?
also think about it this way. should another tragedy to aviation occur, would you rather be stuck at amf for the next 8-10 years while the industry isn't hiring, or would you rather be stuck at a regional where you will eventually (not year 1 or 2, but later) make noticeably more money and have a better quality of life?

that's my 2 cents. knowing what I know now, would I have spent a year at ameriflight? simple...no. it's even been a while since I've been there and I still try and save younger pilots from making that mistake.
Wow Cheerleader. One single post. HMMMMMMMM.
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Old 08-29-2015, 08:47 AM   #2550  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piloco View Post
also think about it this way. should another tragedy to aviation occur, would you rather be stuck at amf for the next 8-10 years while the industry isn't hiring, or would you rather be stuck at a regional where you will eventually (not year 1 or 2, but later) make noticeably more money and have a better quality of life?
Or, to put it another way;

Would you rather be at AMF where you would still have a job and are still building flight time or would you rather be looking for a job at McD's while you wait to get called back from furlough? (AMF has never furloughed a pilot in their almost 50 year history.)
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