EMAW

Careful with logging PIC time with out being the PIC of record, even if you are pilot flying. As far as a resume goes, (the reason why PIC is important) most major airlines only see PIC time as being the one who signs for the aircraft. You can legally log PIC as sole manipulator, but you may have to separate it out later.

Also, does boutique have OPSPEC A015? If they don't, then an SIC is always a required crewmember.

dera

They do have A015. SIC is only required per the GOM, and that is somewhat questionable if it's loggable or not - the FAA has never taken a stance about it.

Log PIC when you legally can, because that time cannot be taken away from you. Not because of your resume, but because your SIC time might not legally count if FAA says something about it eventually.
GOM is accepted, not approved. You can have a GOM that requires a second crewmember in a 172, and it would have the same weight as in a PC12.

On my logbook they are easy to separate. Any time before my 135.299 and IOE was sole manipulator PIC, and time after that has been acting PIC. I'd assume that's the case for many pilots.

Azorian

this, in the part 121 world, even if PIC qualified, you logged SIC unless your initials went into the PIC blank and you were the assigned PIC for the flight. Manipulator of controls or otherwise.

Yes, Boutique Air has ops spec A015

dera

The sole manipulator only is relevant in a single pilot airplane.

It's up to whoever, but logging PIC is legal, appropriate, and a safe way when you are the pilot flying in a PC12, even if you are technically only an SIC.

If the FAA ever comes up with a interpretation that says the SIC time does not count (and this is a possibility), then I wouldn't want a few hundred hours wiped out just because I didn't log it correctly.

trc8301

If you are an SIC and you don't meet PIC requirements for 135 IFR Operations (1200 /500/75), then no it is not legal to log something you are unqualified for when operating under 135 IFR Operations. If it's a part 91 flight, sure, knock yourself out.

Azorian

and there's the kicker

assuming you were in a part 91 world, log whatever you think is going to stick to the logbook page, hell... technically you could do your private pilot training and check ride in a PC-12

but if an FAR 135 approved air carrier operates a sprawling fleet of 6 seat airplanes under 12,500 lbs, and you are ASEL commercial instrument with 800 hours total time, as long as the regulations say you have to meet PIC minimums to act as PIC, you probably shouldn't be logging a solitary second of PIC time since the 135 PIC minimums for a part 135 op are as outlined above.

it only raises the question - "hey man, if you only had 800 hours on June 12th, 2018... how come 200 hours of that is part 135 PIC time if you weren't legal to act as PIC of a 135 aircraft?"

its one interpretation anyhow... and it wouldn't be something i would want to answer on my next interview

besides, supposedly the upgrade time at a place like Boutique is what, a year? 14 months?

why not play the safe game and log SIC time instead of trying to navigate through the murky waters of what the FAA may or may not have to say about it?

dera

Not correct.
You need to read the regs again. And know the difference between acting PIC, and logging PIC time.

dera

Nothing murky here. And the FAA agrees with it.
Acting PIC and logging PIC are two different things.
Read 61.51(e) and understand it.

Another question you might not want to answer:

"So, how come you logged SIC time in a single pilot airplane, isn't that against 61.51(f)?".

61.51(f) allows you to log SIC time "and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted."

Remember: GOM is _not_ approved, it's accepted material. And it is not regulatory. It's just a murky (albeit generally accepted) interpretation that you can log SIC time in a single pilot plane because your GOM specifies an SIC.
PIC time is safe and doesn't need any explanation as long as you don't try to claim that as part of your 1000 hours TPIC or whatever in your resume. There is no grey area in logging PIC as sole manipulator of controls, but there is a grey area in PC12 SIC time.

Azorian

i see where you are coming from... but i think we are approaching a point from two different directions. Let me come at it from another angle

PIC part 135 is on high minimums until he has served as PIC for 100 hours.

if you are an SIC with 800 hours "PIC time" and you then upgrade to captain... are you on high mins? or not?

deadstick35

They have. Read the Nichols and Cato letters on logging SIC time:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf