Ewfflyer

Good Points, and glad you're civil about it Clear. Hopefully my upgrade will come soon once we aquire a few of these new jets. I've been here 1.5yrs in april. So the pay increases are more than adequate. It's a smaller town area, in po-dunk indiana. I grew up here, so that's part of it for me. The other is I love freight flying. We do pax work also, but every time I do it, 9 of 10 I hate the flight.

I agree, the other operations out there need to bump their pay if they are going to keep getting quality people, not just the throw-backs. We're having that problem with the last 5 applicants having the requirements, but just not having that skill to fly single-pilot all-weather.

Just curious, what's the "bad habits for life" that 135 can give you???? I know since I've done this, my CRM skills have deteriorated since I am the only pilot. I compare it to the early CFI skills, when you train someone, its hard to let them screw it all up. So now I don't mind as much when a trainee or prospect flies, because I make them file their own flight plans, takes at least that part off me responsibility wise. Other than that, I fly like I've always flown.

de727ups

"what's the "bad habits for life" that 135 can give you????"

Don't pay him any mind. I was 135 freight before I did 121 and now I'm a UPS 7576 Capt. If everyone did 135 freight before they moved up we'd have much better sticks sitting in airline cockpits. It's just unfortunate that nobody cares about that anymore.

727C47

Amen,brother speaking as a former DC-3 pt.135 freight dog captain, I whole heartedly agree. Got to reenact "Fate is the Hunter",or at least certain chapters in the '90's. What does not kill you makes you stronger.

theskyisclear

well, I have never said that 135 does not make you a better pilot. It is the best and hardest flying you can do. Apparently you did not understand or did not read my post. I did fly 135 cargo for more than 600 hours so I know how good it is for ones flying.

The bad habits you can get flying 135 is known by all that have done it and that are open minded to admit them. Things that are common are for example that you get used to flying alone and get like the military guys that have to adapt again sharing the cockpit with another pilot and then in the 135 there is a lot of flows (different ones depending on the pilot flying) and very litle follow up with checklist and also, everyone flies with different settings, speeds and ways of doing things. Another thing is that in the 135 there is always hurry to get going and all is rushed and that is not the way of working in 121. Another thing is the safety factor. In 135 the operational interest is sometimes more important that being the safest meaning that they (the management) wants the pilot to be safe but not the safest (let's see how many understand that). In 121 the safety is number one and you have to be the safest not only legally safe, etc. I can go on but maybe others have something more to share as I seem to be the only one that is open enough to admit that the salaries are bad and that there are habits to get flying alone without any structure in 135 operations. I have seen terrible ways of flying by 135 pilots and I do not mean that everyone that fly 135 would have bad habits. Now, please read the post before attacking.

de727ups

"flying alone and get like the military guys"

So are single seat fighter pilots unsafe, too?

"135 there is always hurry to get going and all is rushed and that is not the way of working in 121"

I don't know where you work (where DO you work?) but there is a schedule to keep everywhere. 121, 135, doesn't matter. Are you saying 121 can't be rushed? That's nonsense.

"In 135 the operational interest is sometimes more important that being the safest..."In 121 the safety is number one".

Level of safety is a personal responsibility and corporate culture, not what reg you are working under. I guess we could debate that there are some regs under 121 that are more stringent than 135. Maybe some 135 regs are more stringent, too, in some areas (max duty day, min rest?). But to condem 135 (and single seat fighters) as unsafe goes pretty far overboard if you ask me. I guess flying over Bosnia in an F16 was kinda unsafe, but that's the nature of the beast.

135 flying is a challenge. How safe you make it depends a lot on the individual and the company you work for. If you don't like the weather or shape the airplane is in, you need to say so. Again, the experience of flying 135 freight is a seasoning process everyone should go through before reaching the shiny jet. That would make the world a better place and make RJ Capts rest easier.

org1

And I'd add, it would make some safer RJ Capts, too. Flying single pilot IFR forces prioritization, organization, and multitasking. After flying single pilot for a while, going to a crewed airplane is a breeze. It's up to the training at the beginning of the two pilot environment to teach the teamwork. As for CRM, I've seen plenty of guys flying large jets that didn't REALLY know what it's all about. IMHO, CRM is fostered, not taught. Long before the term was even thought of, there were lots of guys using great CRM. It's as much a personality thing as anything.

theskyisclear

Man, you really dont understand the posting or you like to put words in that I did not write.
Where in my posting did I say that 135 pilots where unsafe?
where in my posting did I say that Military guys are unsafe?

What I said is that they have to adapt to share the cockpit with another pilot from being used to handle everything alone.

It is difficult to answer to things I have not writen so please if we are going to discuss things read the postings and do not make up things.

theskyisclear

Hey de727ups,

I have said in many postings that 135 ops makes you a hell of a pilot, better training and harder flying is difficult to find so where do you find that I said different?

When I said that operational interest comes before safety is not from the pilots side but from the management.

theskyisclear

well I was flying 135 already back in 1998 and I know very well the nature of it. Nothing you answered to my posting is any news and much is even trying to make up things like if I had said "military or 135 pilost are unsafe"

What is all that about safety being a personal thing? that is no news, but the companies (meaning management, you know, the DO, CEO and all the guys looking at the green numbers)can also be more or less safety minded.

There is nothing more educating than flying in hard weather and being abused and exploated by the 135 management so I can agree that every pilot should experience 135 before going to the 121 ops. It will make them apreaciate the regionals much more..................and for sure be more prepared to handle any situation.

theskyisclear

OK. IS THAT ANY NEWS?

Reading your answer is fustrating because it tells me you did not understand a word of my posting. Do I writte that bad? It is like you are answering to something, someone else.

So are single seat fighter pilots unsafe, too? WHAT???? When did I said that? I never said anything close to it!

"don't know where you work (where DO you work?) but there is a schedule to keep everywhere. 121, 135, doesn't matter. Are you saying 121 can't be rushed? That's nonsense."

SO YOU HAVE SEEN PASSENGER AIRLINE PILOTS NOT DOING THE CHECKLIST JUST STARTING THE ENGINES AND TAXING ETC WITHOUT EVEN GLANSING AT ANY CHECKLIST ONCE?

SO YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY 135 PILOT JUMPING OVER EVERY CHECKLIST rushing like crazy on the apron to get going because the courier or somebody else scre his schedule? I HAVE SEEN MANY 135 PILOTS DO THAT. I DO NOT SAY THEY ARE LESS SAFE BECAUSE OF THAT. IS FOR EVERYONE OF US TO JUDGE BUT I DO CLAIM THAT IT IS PART OF THE RUSH AND PRESSURE THE 135 MANAGEMENT PUT ON THE LIGHT TWIN 135 IFR PIC. Where the hell do you work that thinks that 121 makes you rush like in the 135 operations?

When did I say that flying 135 ops was unsafe? I was talking about how management put operational interest before being the safest.

Man you really need to train in your hability to understand what you read! I loved flying 135 but I did not close my eyes for the problems and no, no no, I do not think how challanging it was or how unsafe and all that you try to make it sound like I said.

Get this. The best skill are the ones you get flying IFR 135 PIC. there is no better training and better flying!! I already said it before you answered to I dont know what!

What I am pointing out is the sick management of many smalls 135 operations and that they have to value their pilots more so stop jumping on me because I care about fellow pilots. I AM ON THE 135 PILOTS SIDE! GET THAT!