Originally Posted by Bonanzer

Rah is currently testing a flica Sap product with pbs.

Originally Posted by joseolay

Solid language, that my friend is the language in the contract that spells out what the company can and can't do. Currently, our contract has a 92 hour limit for lines. You mentioned the company would slap 95 hour schedules on you? How would that work with the 92 hour limit we currently have? It would not and the limit could be lower under new language.

Under PBS, usually you have an average credit window. For example, all the lines added up together could average 78 hours under a 75-80 credit window. The contract states what the window is and the awarded average must fall in the middle of the window. If the minimum is 65 and the maximum is 92 there would be plenty of pilots in the middle, towards the top and right at 65 after the PBS award.

Don't forgot, you'd still have the SAP after the PBS award to further tweak and improve your schedule. SAP trades would become instant all the time too because less pilots would need to SAP.

You don't need one single piece of software to run all your bidding, trip trading and monthly schedule requirements. Mesa uses flica just like we do. They have different software to run their PBS and flica does the rest. Once the PBS award is done, the schedules show up in flica and flica is used for everything else including trip trades and SAP. Delta and Gojet use the same PBS software as mesa.

Originally Posted by joseolay

PBS is a system of building and awarding lines. The construction process of trips is completely separate and would be no different under PBS.

Originally Posted by 272922

So basically what you're saying is that we should never negotiate anything at all, because the company will just ignore it. Heck, lets just throw out the current contract and tell the company that they can do whatever it is they want, because we're sure they're just ignoring everything in our current contract and LOAs as well.

It's a weak argument by a person that doesn't understand the process.

Originally Posted by Happyflyer

With regards to PBS what will actually happen is if I bid 65 hours PBS will ignore that request because, the average target line value needs to be met. So now I'll need to SAP to get to 65, which is fine except my 78 schedule will be full of 16 hour 4 days so SAPing 65 with any decent trip productivity will be impossible.

Your saying less pilots will need to SAP, but that's also what makes the SAP work. It is participation not just the starting open time that gets traded.

I don't think Delta, Gojet, or Mesa have a better scheduling system than we do right now, so why would I need to look to a company who has a worse system for improvements?

Originally Posted by Happyflyer

Well my friend the contract says 92 hours block not credit and I didn't specify. So your trying to show me up up with your "solid language" clarification isn't working so well.

With regards to PBS what will actually happen is if I bid 65 hours PBS will ignore that request because, the average target line value needs to be met. So now I'll need to SAP to get to 65, which is fine except my 78 schedule will be full of 16 hour 4 days so SAPing 65 with any decent trip productivity will be impossible.

Your saying less pilots will need to SAP, but that's also what makes the SAP work. It is participation not just the starting open time that gets traded.

I don't think Delta, Gojet, or Mesa have a better scheduling system than we do right now, so why would I need to look to a company who has a worse system for improvements?

Originally Posted by Happyflyer

Straight up legit union question.

Section 25 A6 second sentence says "Sections and trips that cannot be placed into flying schedules will be placed into open time"

If there is enough open time in the SAP when it opens that an addditional 1-5 Rd1 lines could have been built, do the 1st-5th RD2 pilots have a legitimate grievance to have been included into RD1.

It appears the SAP pot is being opened with an artificial high amount of open time to increase the amount of RD2 pilots which are more limited in control of their schedule. I read the section to mean that if a RD1 line could have been built with SAP open time, it should have been.

Originally Posted by joseolay

If your PBS award is nothing but 16 hour 4s, you need help bidding. The current average before trips get split is 20 hours for a 4. Plently of 4s credit 21+ hours.