After glancing at this, I don't want people with the 121 time to think that they have to wait 9 mo to upgrade if they come to PSA.

We are still forcing upgrades. Anyone who is eligible and bids for a CA spot will be awarded before anyone else on property is forced to upgrade.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, you can bid and be awarded CA faster than you can say Norfolk!

I'm totally unfamiliar with how airline scheduling works but am I reading this right? If I want CLT I can get short call reserve 5 months after hire, which would be not long after finishing training. If you get SCR at CLT does that mean you're domiciled there and just have to wait until you're a lineholder? Or can they move you to somewhere else for long call reserve?

Basically, if you get SCR at CLT are you safe getting a long term lease or buying a place? I guess you would also have to worry about upgrading and being moved.

Yes, you would be safe getting a place because as you move up in seniority in CLT you would be able to hold a different kind of schedule, like Long Call, a Build Up line, or a Round 1 Line. You are correct that once you upgrade you would most likely be based elsewhere, but you also have the option of commuting out of CLT to wherever you're based.

How many hours does one usually fly a month on SCR? I am noticing a long wait as CA and just curious if there is a typical month of flying when on SCR.

I'm looking to get ORF when I start training late September, and it looks like that won't be an issue. I'm noticing the CA lines seem pretty junior, and I'm sure that'll shake out a little more when I upgrade in a year and a half or two, but just curious at this point.

Not at all.

More like hurry up and wait.... But I will say, it is a life changer living in base on reserve!

I'm looking to move to Norfolk, outside of IOE I don't think it'll be an issue to be there through the entirety of my time at PSA. Does this seem reasonable?

I understand your question to be "Can I move to Norfolk and be based there continuously for several years until I leave PSA"

Not unreasonable to hope for that. Trying to predict the future at regional airlines is quite difficult. Don't structure your life such that ruin will ensue if it doesn't work out.

Forced upgrades
 

Is there any value to staying reserve if you live within 45 minutes of TYS. Can you even do that?

You’d have more control over your schedule if you take a line when you can hold one. That said, nothing prevents a more senior person from bidding reserve.


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No one in their right mind would bid reserve at PSA.

Maybe long call if you lived in base.

AUGUST 2018

https://imgur.com/47vkX43

https://i.imgur.com/47vkX43.jpg

11 FO's washed out of training in a single month? That's what that means?

More or less. Word is the rtp people are struggling heavily.

Those attrition numbers would be great if they were triple or quadruple the current values and IF people were moving on to greener pastures. However, not many are going to UA, DL and FDX as they once were. Simply "moving on to a major" or "paying your dues" isn't cutting it.

I can agree with this. The problem I am seeing is that they need slightly more than max sessions that PSA will only give. I know a few that just need one or two more. My partner was an RTP guy, and he needed extra sessions and a lot of work. So he and I spent a lot of time getting all of the procedures, flows, call-outs down for him, that way all he needed was feel of the airplane. I am happy he made it through, a few others I know didn't....

A lot of money the company is putting into these guys to fail. While those of us on property don’t get any extra incentives

That's what I'm saying.

Curious if the RTP failures are split between the prior services or if there are particular backgrounds that are leaning to failure.

I have heard, and I can not substantiate this with any facts, that Army Helo guys tend to have a harder time than the USN and USMC helo guys because unlike their counterparts in the other branches, the USN and USMC still do initial in fixed-wing before tracking to their final job.

Yeah, and some of us have even been forced out of base, forced onto reserve, and had our $2500 per quarter retention bonus taken away from us.

[I know, I'm starting to sound like a broken record...]

A lot of Army helo guys aren't used to using the IFR system actually. It's it's what I've learned from my RTP partner who was a Army Helo guy.


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Of the 6 or 7 (can’t remember names to accurately count) that busted from my class most were marines, one was army 64 guy. I think it comes down to TT flying helos, combined with stuff like staff duty (little or no flying) and study habits.
For those saying PSA is basically wasting money on RTP vs more $$ for those on property is a cop out. Most all the regionals have or will have an RTP program or flight school/colleg program agreement. That’s the state of the industry as a whole and it’s disingenuous to say your not making more because someone outside the “traditional” route came to 121

Not knocking the RTP guys. All the ones from my class are great guys, and great pilots. I don’t have any ill feelings towards them at all, it’s too good of a deal to pass up. It’s the same feeling we have about the low key extra bonus we were hearing about for DECs. There’s just a lot of money being thrown outward while we are getting paid well short of industry average.

It just all stems from the same broken record issue that is stated on here day in and out. Communication from people who should be communicating that are not.

Good point and well said

Lets be respectful
 

I would like to ask everyone to be respect to everyone going through training. I am sure that nobody made it through as easy as yourselves, but these are men and women who served our country like we will never understand. Let's set-up everyone the best path to succeed. Respectfully, Michael 39%

Of course man!


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If an RTP guy fails, the money given to them for the fixed wing time has to be repaid. That money isn't simply lost by the company and taken out of a line pilot's pocket.

Not sure about that. Only thing I signed was in reference to paying back the bonus we got after IOE.

I’m not 100% sure but I do not think that is necessarily true.

It’s not, just like if you leave before 2 years you have to pay back the sign on bonus.

How can guys leaving before two years not payback that bonus? They all signed an agreement stating they would have to pay back in full if they left in year one and that it would be prorated in the 2nd year.

RTP
 

Helo guys have such a varied background. id guess the lack of x-country in actual IFR in controlled airspace. No chip in the whole branch war thing but army/ANG seems to treat helo's like driving a garden tractor. This plane demands that you have a good grasp on aeronautics and SOP's.

I didn’t come through an RTP program, but I did serve, I then got out and used my G.I. Bill to get my certificates, then raked together the time I needed doing everything from meat bombing to instructing to 135, all while supporting a family on an average of 35K a year. I don’t speak for everyone, but free education, 7 years of a guaranteed pay check, with money for rent and utilities, not to mention most meals free. Meanwhile civilian tax payers work harder and make less money, with more education than I had!? The tax payers have thanked me far in excess of my service. We all volunteered, your gratitude is appreciated, but not necessary.

Many of us (me included could for sure) could have more solid IFR skills, but I’d be hard pressed to be against us flying anything like a tractor or not having a grasp of SOPs/aeronautics. combine that with our training in CRM and emergency procedures and you begin to under stand why the we have branch mottos like “above the best”

I think as a whole military aviators have skill sets civilians do not and to a degree vise versa.

I don't know about all that. I had 260 total PIC Airplane 1600 Helo 3hrs actual IMC and maybe 10? in the IFR system when I got to the airlines and I made it through training just fine.

I didn't use my GI Bill though. It was all my skin in the game. To paraphrase the guy who taught me how to fly who is a retired CWO/IP, has done more things in the civilian world most pilots only dream of including his award winning Air Show act "I'll hire a civilian over a military pilot any day" (he was a 135 CP among other things)

His reasoning was that civilians have skin in the game. Military pilots have had everything handed to them on a silver platter. He was a ruck marching airborne before accession, real salt of the Earth type.

Maybe these RTP guys just have it too easy? (Only in some cases obviously...)

Well, I know for sure if I was expected to just hop in a rotor bird and fly combat missions there would be a steep learning curve for me. So I get the struggle

I’ve flown with military aviators that were great pilots and those that weren’t. I’ve flown with civilian pilots that were great pilots and those that weren’t. There are good pilots and bad pilots. In the military and in the civilian world. Just like there are good doctors and bad doctors. It is what it is. I don’t think one path or the other better prepares one for 121 jet ops. It is what you make of it.

I'm sure a Helicopter is quite the handful. As stated, this program in reverse would be quite a mess. ( RJ- Helicopter). Anyway kudos to all those that stepped up to serve their country. Great folks, just hope PSA's giving them the tools to be successful in the switch.