Passing on the flow Q?
#61
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 449
I keep hearing people throw this around as the reason for our absurdly large number of reserves, and it's very possible that's how the company sees it, but if it's that drastic, I'd start asking myself, what are people doing within SAP?
I've always had the feeling that people are attempting to maximize their days off, while still flying decently high credit trips. How many 22-24 4-day trips are in the open time pot when SAP opens vs when it closes? What about the 12-15 hour 4-days? I believe the union even said the survey they did eons ago (at this point) basically backed that up.
I understand the company also attempts to mitigate schedules that could potentially cause fatigue, etc, but it seems fairly clear (to me) why there's a sudden jump in open time afterward. I'm guessing not too many people are excited for a 4:50am show to fly 2 legs every day, spend almost 20 hours in a hotel each night, and get back late all for the privilege of earning 15 hours of pay.
I've always had the feeling that people are attempting to maximize their days off, while still flying decently high credit trips. How many 22-24 4-day trips are in the open time pot when SAP opens vs when it closes? What about the 12-15 hour 4-days? I believe the union even said the survey they did eons ago (at this point) basically backed that up.
I understand the company also attempts to mitigate schedules that could potentially cause fatigue, etc, but it seems fairly clear (to me) why there's a sudden jump in open time afterward. I'm guessing not too many people are excited for a 4:50am show to fly 2 legs every day, spend almost 20 hours in a hotel each night, and get back late all for the privilege of earning 15 hours of pay.
Not to mention commuters have a devil of a time finding commutable trips anywhere other than Charlotte since our out station lines tend to start early and end late. Which results in them just sapping down to 65 with max days off.
#62
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 566
I'm with you right up until the point that round two comes along. Sure SAP makes lots of headaches for the company in terms of predictability, but then scheduling turns around and leaves hundreds of hours in open time instead of building out all the trips into round two hard lines.
Dayton will pretty regularly only have 4 maybe 5 round two lines, while the open time pot is absolutely overflowing with trips. The trips have to get covered one way or another, but it seems scheduling doesn't want to lose the absolute control they have when most of the pilots are on reserve.
Dayton will pretty regularly only have 4 maybe 5 round two lines, while the open time pot is absolutely overflowing with trips. The trips have to get covered one way or another, but it seems scheduling doesn't want to lose the absolute control they have when most of the pilots are on reserve.
I think it's all about control. Looking over the Crew Mobile "auto assignment" left me wanting an explanation of how it can be called automatic if CS still gets to send trip availability notifications to whoever they choose.
A properly designed/implemented piece of computer software can do all of this without the human factor. At the end of the day, with such a system we (the union) would get access to see the rules the system uses and CS doesn't want that. They don't even want us to be able to see the full trip history from pairing generation to assignment because we would have more ammunition toward contract grievances.
#63
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 154
PBS. Base construction
Keep in mind, CLT has a greater number and mix of trips, hence PBS can work with more granularity than a small base. I’d say YES in CLT and NO if based in a loc w small number of pairings with little variety. It’s a junk-in junk-out system so rigs have never been more important.
#64
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,109
PBS may or may not reduce reserves. I’m not really sure. But what I do know is that we will still be way overstaffed regardless.
Right now we are pretty close to 50% of the pilots being on reserve or in training. When I started here in 2014 and up until 2017 we were around 20-30% all that time. It wasn’t really until late 2017 when we started hiring a lot more than just what was required for the additional airplanes. Yet, besides the IT meltdown last year we’ve never had a problem staffing the airline. When I started reserves were averaging 40-60 hours a month. Not 20 hours like they are now. And again, we never had a problem manning all the flights. If we could staff the airline fine back then there is absolutely no reason today that the reserve grid shouldn’t be green every single day in every base in both seats. Yet, for CVG CA, it’s red everyday the rest of the month. I’m a numbers guy, and that obviously does not make sense to me.
Even if PBS reduces reserves it won’t be much. Maybe reduce it by 1-2 months tops, if that. We will still have a ton of reserves. My theory is they’re planning on the big 6 ramping up hiring and maybe taking more flying via more 900s and/or a mix of Mesa’s flying being that we’re starting to operate into DFW in a few months.
Right now we are pretty close to 50% of the pilots being on reserve or in training. When I started here in 2014 and up until 2017 we were around 20-30% all that time. It wasn’t really until late 2017 when we started hiring a lot more than just what was required for the additional airplanes. Yet, besides the IT meltdown last year we’ve never had a problem staffing the airline. When I started reserves were averaging 40-60 hours a month. Not 20 hours like they are now. And again, we never had a problem manning all the flights. If we could staff the airline fine back then there is absolutely no reason today that the reserve grid shouldn’t be green every single day in every base in both seats. Yet, for CVG CA, it’s red everyday the rest of the month. I’m a numbers guy, and that obviously does not make sense to me.
Even if PBS reduces reserves it won’t be much. Maybe reduce it by 1-2 months tops, if that. We will still have a ton of reserves. My theory is they’re planning on the big 6 ramping up hiring and maybe taking more flying via more 900s and/or a mix of Mesa’s flying being that we’re starting to operate into DFW in a few months.
#65
Also heard that flow is going to stop temporarily as AA transitions from the MD80 to allow for training as these pilots transition to other fleets. Any idea how long this will last or when this will begin?
#66
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 425
Where did this 1% rumor come from? Not saying it isn't a possibility, but I flew with a member of the union who said that this has never been discussed by company management in any meeting.
Also heard that flow is going to stop temporarily as AA transitions from the MD80 to allow for training as these pilots transition to other fleets. Any idea how long this will last or when this will begin?
Also heard that flow is going to stop temporarily as AA transitions from the MD80 to allow for training as these pilots transition to other fleets. Any idea how long this will last or when this will begin?
#67
Where did this 1% rumor come from? Not saying it isn't a possibility, but I flew with a member of the union who said that this has never been discussed by company management in any meeting.
Also heard that flow is going to stop temporarily as AA transitions from the MD80 to allow for training as these pilots transition to other fleets. Any idea how long this will last or when this will begin?
Also heard that flow is going to stop temporarily as AA transitions from the MD80 to allow for training as these pilots transition to other fleets. Any idea how long this will last or when this will begin?
And no, flows are not stopping. Any month that they have a new hire class they have to flow. I think new hire classes in August aren’t happening to help with the transition off the 80.
#68
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 159
Line bidding, SAP, PBS...doesn’t matter if the pairings are inefficient. Garbage in, garbage out. Without a good trip/duty rig with an accompanying significant min day without carveouts, this is all academic. Until that day, I need SAP to avoid the garbage pairings
#70
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 75
Almost NEVER have I not gotten close to what is desired. KEEP SAP!
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