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BurnerAccount69 07-25-2021 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3269006)
The funny thing is, I would bet a year’s salary that when we had paper charts, there were a lot more non compliant jepps. It was just a ton of work to actually verify they were updated so it was basically the honor system. Since everything is digital now it makes verifying compliance a breeze. I’d be willing to bet compliance now is easily at least still 10 times better than pre-EFB days.

I guess I did them for a boy scout operation then. The iPad stuff I have no sympathy for, its stupidly easy to be compliant.

Thedude86 07-25-2021 06:06 PM


Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy (Post 3269014)
One time I got a line check with an oldean almost lifer Captain. He had been borrowing my 10-9 in Charlotte which I found odd. So the check airmam asks to see his jepps, and the last update he had "done" was at least a few years back. The check airman says "xxxx I'm not saying it have to do all of them because I know you won't, but you have to do some of them". The Captain says "I have them and holds up a dozen yellow envelopes from his flight bag".

Nearly fell out of my ratty -200 seat laughing.

Haha! Doesnt surprise me one bit. I would love to see the percentage of pilot’s that actually updated the CLT charts when they’ve done the visual to 18R 1,000 times in just the past year alone. I could draw the 10-9 with my eyes closed.

Thedude86 07-25-2021 06:07 PM


Originally Posted by BurnerAccount69 (Post 3269024)
I guess I did them for a boy scout operation then. The iPad stuff I have no sympathy for, its stupidly easy to be compliant.

I totally agree. There’s no excuse. I’m just putting it into perspective.

BurnerAccount69 07-25-2021 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3269029)
I totally agree. There’s no excuse. I’m just putting it into perspective.

Yea, I feel like the iOS is a trivial part of it...if charts/jepp FD, hots, and comply are up to date, who cares?

Swakid8 07-25-2021 08:01 PM


Originally Posted by BurnerAccount69 (Post 3269035)
Yea, I feel like the iOS is a trivial part of it...if charts/jepp FD, hots, and comply are up to date, who cares?

Because HOTs can fail to load if the IOS isn’t up to date.

BurnerAccount69 07-26-2021 05:02 AM


Originally Posted by Swakid8 (Post 3269104)
Because HOTs can fail to load if the IOS isn’t up to date.

ahhh alright...never been in the position to find that out cuz well..mine is always up to date

PleaseComplete 07-26-2021 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 3268937)
Its been happening for years. And we aren’t the only airline with pilots who forget the parking brake or NWS switch.

Simply persiflage without statistics.

chrisreedrules 07-26-2021 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by PleaseComplete (Post 3269265)
Simply persiflage without statistics.

Well I happen to know a thing or two about those statistics and about the particular number of events at PSA. It’s been happening for years. MHI changed their inspection criteria which now requires costly inspections be complied with. It’s costing the company a lot of money so naturally they are now (like magic) hyper-focused on it.

As for the section 18’s, you have to understand the relationship of all the various departments at an airline. Flight Ops being the department with the most “power” or sway, if you will. So upper management sees a problem. “Fix the NWS issue. It’s costing us money. Flight Ops, get on it.” So flight Ops looks at the problem, and the means at their disposal to “fix” said problem. Which, in this case really isn’t much. They tried bulletins and notices to the pilot group and that didn’t work (not surprisingly) and so then they decided they’ll try another tool at their disposal, disciplinary hearings. The real fix involves neither bulletins or Section 18 hearings. But the real fix takes time and it’s difficult to show upper management you’re doing something about a problem if all you’re telling them is, “we are making changes that require regulatory approval. ETA 6 months. Stby to stby.” That doesn’t work well. Hence the hearings and hyper-focus on non compliance etc.

Just take your time, make sure you’re doing everything by the book. No need to rush anything for any reason, be methodical and deliberate. If you are in a “non-normal” situation like coming into a tow-in gate, at a power-out gate, or have no APU, just be extra careful. If you have a checklist that is interrupted, start it over from the beginning. Brief your FOs to double-check the parking brake and NWS switch at the before start and at shutdown. Make sure your EFB is up to date. Any normal pilot flying the line shouldn’t be worried about any of these things because frankly, you’re doing your normal job of showing up to work prepared and ready to work. Remember, we aren’t paid to get passengers and planes from A to B. We’re paid to mitigate risk between A and B. So mitigate.

arbalist1 07-26-2021 04:56 PM

I agree with everything you say and it illustrates what happens here. Having been in leadership/support positions at every level in an organization, here's my two cents: Of course they want to stop the bleeding immediately and the initial reaction is to do what you described as happening. But true leadership would take it to another level and understand that their decisions have secondary and tertiary effects on those working the front line. Leaders don't lean on the front line to make better decisions. They incorporate and adjust systems that generate the best results. They're not being leaders, they're being managers. And the worst kind of managers are the ones that lay blame on their subordinates.

I came from the military so maybe that's why this looks worse to me. Any leader that tried to blame subordinates for failures would be immediately corrected or eventually removed if it was a pattern of behavior. Just saying.

DrSmacFum 07-28-2021 08:34 AM

PSA announces a $15k sign on bonus. I'm guessing those of us with class dates before this announcement are out of luck?


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