The Useful PSA Thread
05-12-2015 | 05:41 PM
#4231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
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You can't force anyone to do anything. However, asking national to try and talk our pilots into going, and stating that you cannot staff the planes without that help, is ludicrous. If your Union is telling you that they simply offered an olive branch, to help our guys, you got fed a line.
05-12-2015 | 05:42 PM
#4232
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
05-12-2015 | 05:45 PM
#4236
Weekends and Holidays OFF
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=PilotJ3;1879141]"The PSA MEC believes that our ALPA brothers and sisters had crear foresight during the adoption of Administrative Manual Section 45, part 4.B."
Admin Manual 45, Part 4
B. APPLICATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
Fragmentation policy shall apply if an acquiring ALPA carrier declares an intent to acquire assets of another ALPA carrier, and the acquiring carrier agrees to employ any of the other carrier’s pilots in conjunction with the assets it acquires and to integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process. In the event a carrier does not intend to employ and integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process, the President shall urge the acquiring carrier to do so.
...and the harm is? Every ALPA CBA Section 1 has boilerplate fragmentation language saying (in effect) the pilots go with the airplanes. The admin manual compels MECs to attempt to keep the pilots with the airplanes. Like mergers, there is an established process between ALPA carriers.
So, what you are upset about is that the PSA MEC is pointing out ALPA's national policy and Envoy pilots (the MEC and LECs, in particular) want to ignore their CBA's fragmentation language because they hate PSA and don't want anyone to work here.
This is still pro forma ALPA inside baseball. No scandal here.
Please try again.
Admin Manual 45, Part 4
B. APPLICATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
Fragmentation policy shall apply if an acquiring ALPA carrier declares an intent to acquire assets of another ALPA carrier, and the acquiring carrier agrees to employ any of the other carrier’s pilots in conjunction with the assets it acquires and to integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process. In the event a carrier does not intend to employ and integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process, the President shall urge the acquiring carrier to do so.
...and the harm is? Every ALPA CBA Section 1 has boilerplate fragmentation language saying (in effect) the pilots go with the airplanes. The admin manual compels MECs to attempt to keep the pilots with the airplanes. Like mergers, there is an established process between ALPA carriers.
So, what you are upset about is that the PSA MEC is pointing out ALPA's national policy and Envoy pilots (the MEC and LECs, in particular) want to ignore their CBA's fragmentation language because they hate PSA and don't want anyone to work here.
This is still pro forma ALPA inside baseball. No scandal here.
Please try again.
05-12-2015 | 05:50 PM
#4237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
The problem is that, and it pains me to say it, some of the Envoy pilots' sentiments here echo a sense of denial, fantasy, and nostalgia due to their collective memory of the way things used to operate when they had a monopoly on AAG flying, when in reality they are awakening late, to a new dawn where competition and whipsaw are, regrettably, very much alive.
Most here can be forgiven as they are probably too young or not at one of the Eagles to remember how that all played out, but it was not pretty.
Many people hate the sixteen year agreement that stopped the whipsaw of the Eagles. But that's what it accomplished.
Now it's back.
You say that Envoy pilots don't know the reality of the current whipsaw environment. I bet you don't know what it is like not to be whipsawed. PSA had the chance to lift themselves out of that morass. Instead you dragged Envoy into it.
You weren't getting shutdown. There were loose lipped Eagle VP's running around saying Eagle was going to "transfer those pos CRJ's out of here to PSA" to move to a single manufacturer operation. One particular VP was giddy as a schoolgirl about getting 175's at Eagle.
This was all prior to your vote.
Curiously enough, PDT never was mentioned at all.
In my opinion though, the attempts at recreating a new whipsaw environment will be short lived. It appears this segment of the industry will implode relatively quickly. Let it RIP.
05-12-2015 | 05:52 PM
#4238
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=skydrol500;1879252]
You ever get the idea we are letting you dig your own grave? Ask your union to see the actual letter.
"The PSA MEC believes that our ALPA brothers and sisters had crear foresight during the adoption of Administrative Manual Section 45, part 4.B."
Admin Manual 45, Part 4
B. APPLICATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
Fragmentation policy shall apply if an acquiring ALPA carrier declares an intent to acquire assets of another ALPA carrier, and the acquiring carrier agrees to employ any of the other carrier’s pilots in conjunction with the assets it acquires and to integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process. In the event a carrier does not intend to employ and integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process, the President shall urge the acquiring carrier to do so.
...and the harm is? Every ALPA CBA Section 1 has boilerplate fragmentation language saying (in effect) the pilots go with the airplanes. The admin manual compels MECs to attempt to keep the pilots with the airplanes. Like mergers, there is an established process between ALPA carriers.
So, what you are upset about is that the PSA MEC is pointing out ALPA's national policy and Envoy pilots (the MEC and LECs, in particular) want to ignore their CBA's fragmentation language because they hate PSA and don't want anyone to work here.
This is still pro forma ALPA inside baseball. No scandal here.
Please try again.
Admin Manual 45, Part 4
B. APPLICATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY
Fragmentation policy shall apply if an acquiring ALPA carrier declares an intent to acquire assets of another ALPA carrier, and the acquiring carrier agrees to employ any of the other carrier’s pilots in conjunction with the assets it acquires and to integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process. In the event a carrier does not intend to employ and integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process, the President shall urge the acquiring carrier to do so.
...and the harm is? Every ALPA CBA Section 1 has boilerplate fragmentation language saying (in effect) the pilots go with the airplanes. The admin manual compels MECs to attempt to keep the pilots with the airplanes. Like mergers, there is an established process between ALPA carriers.
So, what you are upset about is that the PSA MEC is pointing out ALPA's national policy and Envoy pilots (the MEC and LECs, in particular) want to ignore their CBA's fragmentation language because they hate PSA and don't want anyone to work here.
This is still pro forma ALPA inside baseball. No scandal here.
Please try again.
05-12-2015 | 05:54 PM
#4239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
You can't force anyone to do anything. However, asking national to try and talk our pilots into going, and stating that you cannot staff the planes without that help, is ludicrous. If your Union is telling you that they simply offered an olive branch, to help our guys, you got fed a line.
05-12-2015 | 05:55 PM
#4240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
And then there are some that remember the whipsaw model that Parker is apparently trying to recreate, which is the pre Eagle merger scenario of Simmons, Wings West, et al competing as Eagle carriers.
Most here can be forgiven as they are probably too young or not at one of the Eagles to remember how that all played out, but it was not pretty.
Many people hate the sixteen year agreement that stopped the whipsaw of the Eagles. But that's what it accomplished.
Now it's back.
You say that Envoy pilots don't know the reality of the current whipsaw environment. I bet you don't know what it is like not to be whipsawed. PSA had the chance to lift themselves out of that morass. Instead you dragged Envoy into it.
You weren't getting shutdown. There were loose lipped Eagle VP's running around saying Eagle was going to "transfer those pos CRJ's out of here to PSA" to move to a single manufacturer operation. One particular VP was giddy as a schoolgirl about getting 175's at Eagle.
This was all prior to your vote.
Curiously enough, PDT never was mentioned at all.
In my opinion though, the attempts at recreating a new whipsaw environment will be short lived. It appears this segment of the industry will implode relatively quickly. Let it RIP.
Most here can be forgiven as they are probably too young or not at one of the Eagles to remember how that all played out, but it was not pretty.
Many people hate the sixteen year agreement that stopped the whipsaw of the Eagles. But that's what it accomplished.
Now it's back.
You say that Envoy pilots don't know the reality of the current whipsaw environment. I bet you don't know what it is like not to be whipsawed. PSA had the chance to lift themselves out of that morass. Instead you dragged Envoy into it.
You weren't getting shutdown. There were loose lipped Eagle VP's running around saying Eagle was going to "transfer those pos CRJ's out of here to PSA" to move to a single manufacturer operation. One particular VP was giddy as a schoolgirl about getting 175's at Eagle.
This was all prior to your vote.
Curiously enough, PDT never was mentioned at all.
In my opinion though, the attempts at recreating a new whipsaw environment will be short lived. It appears this segment of the industry will implode relatively quickly. Let it RIP.
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