Kill Bill

i don't know about other posters but i'm trying to warn people off a career that will only end in disappointment. i truly wish i'd taken another path when i had the opportunity. on the other hand, if you like slaving for a company who treats you like dirt 99% of the time, if you like constant scrutiny, if you like being disciplined by people who have the ability to take your career from you in an instant, if you like low-grade morons who can goad you into a fight and end your career permanently, if you like taking pay cuts so management can put huge bonuses in their pockets, if you like working for a retirement you have contracted for in a legally-binding manner only to be told a few years from retirement that, sorry, i needed a few extra million so i declared BK and stole your retirement, if you enjoy watching your earning power erode as years pass, if you think the types of cancers pilots get as they age to be an exciting diversion, then, by all means, sign up and enjoy.

a lot of you don't like me and my manner. i couldn't possibly care less. it may come as a total shock to you but my manner, which you so detest, hides a big soft and helpful heart and my advice issues therefrom. this isn't about PFT and driving down the industry; this is about HEARTBREAK and ending your career after making $150k a year on social security and having to sell everything you once owned just to survive. many of us will be in that position. i will likely not be but that's not the point. the point is the airline business is not run by honorable and nice people. it is run by those who have no scruples and have no trouble sleeping after destroying your life. my heartfelt advice is to do something, anything else. work for yourself, get a govt job, anything. even go to law school but flying? it will kill you.

TheProfessionalPilot

I really do appreciate your concern for both my own dignity and others' as well. I am a very impatient person... I hate waiting; why do you think I love flying? But hey, we are all in this together (well most of us) and I agree with all of you. I didn't end up doing RAA's program because they just didn't sell me very well. I haven't been keeping up on the posts.
Timeline of past events:
I called RAA about the program / I researched the forums / I called CHQ themselves to find out the "validity" of the program / They called me back telling me that they had never HEARD of RAA and that I should call them out on it / I did so and they said "Who did you talk to?" / I said "The head lady for interviews!"

So here I am: Chugging away at hours that I am not sure I will ever use. Chugging away at a degree in Prof. Aero. and don't know why. I am not sure I will ever make the Regionals, let alone the Majors... and I mean any major. I am hoping to find the route which will lead to MY perfect job.

So what do you suggest? Do I go with a 121 or 135 company? AND IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHO WILL HIRE SOMEONE WITH 850/200????!??!?! I am at KFPR and no one, including close friends will hire me because of insurance reasons. At least that's what they say! I know it is not because of my attitude or anything like that; I am very well liked at KFPR, unlike on some of these forums. See I would like to work here and live here at home. I know that is not possible, but what about people like CHQ? That's why I liked them so much: their domiciles and max size equipment. Most regionals can't boast "heavy" aircraft like the 170/190. I KNOW it really is a typical airliner stamped "REGIONAL AIRLINER" but hey, it's still heavy and it still flies faster than a C152, 172, 310, 421, or any small aircraft that I am aware. Right now I have 500/12mo's and 400/6mo's so I guess I'm not doing so badly, but what do I do when no one will hire me at 1000/300???? It is the ultimate deciding factor, RIGHT? I need a job that pays more than CFI. Simple as that. I really thought like MOST of us here that there is still SOME airlines with some glory left in them. Instead they are mostly loaded with junk that they want you to pay for!

So I will ask one more time: What company will hire someone with times like myself and how do I contact them? I need a job that will support both myself and my fiance. As it looks now we will be getting married very soon here. I agree with the timing and I appreciate all of your inputs, etc on that part. She is perfectly capable of pulling some of the wagon up the hill. It's cool when every once in a while you find "a real trooper." I commend the gals on this post for allowing their husbands to PURSUE their DREAMS and "MAKE DREAMS REALITY."

I will keep in touch guys/gals. Until then, what do we do to make pay go up? I think ALL PROFESSIONAL PILOTS should protest until the GVT makes flight schools TELL THE TRUTH about the dull finish on the gold plating from 10-15 years ago! This will reduce the surplus of enthused pilots coming in thinking it is a glorious job with lots of pay. Then when the airlines actually NEED pilots (that should take some time!!!!!) we will have the bigger piece on the stick. What do you think??
Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone???

The-Unconventionally-Professional-Pilot

TheProfessionalPilot

Also another question: How do flight schools get away with false advertising so greatly and so boldly? I mean "GUARUNTEED JOB IN JUST ONE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" posted all over a website... GET REAL. If it sounds too good to be true... You know the rest. It stings, but it makes you stronger.

de727ups

"Also another question: How do flight schools get away with false advertising so greatly and so boldly?"

Dude...I've been fighting this battle at another popular aviation careers website for years. Some of the guys that used to argue with me recently went to Comair for pete's sake. That should teach them that "being owned by Delta" really doesn't mean everything.

Big academy marketing/advertising is one of my biggest pet peeves. Most guys just blow it off and could care less. There really is nothing we can do about it other than post our opinions at sites where young newbies frequent. At least then they go into it with an education. I keep saying the day DCA, CAPT, or PanAm puts a link to my favorite aviation career website, or this one, is the day I shut up.

"but what do I do when no one will hire me at 1000/300????"

Get up to 1200 hours and you'll have no problem getting a 135 freight job. It's not pretty but it'll make you a better pilot and pays better than the regionals first year. I have a friend who's Capt on a BE99 after three months at Amflight who got hired at 1200/100.

TheProfessionalPilot

I'll do it! LoL There is this 135 charter that is not looking for pilots but just fired one for being an idiot... I am hoping to get on with them. They fly checks all over FL and also passengers to the MY??'s, etc. I hope I can get on with either them or this place down in Stuart I suppose.. I guess I need to really open my vision to other avenues than just "the big guys" and "the regionals" and seriously consider freight. I suppose this is how everybody does it? CFI for awhile and then haul freight then get a bigger job (what would be the middle for that?) and then ultimately wind up corporate or major..?
See, I don't know this course very well. My dad is my only person I have to look at in terms of "how he did it". The problem is that he got his time from the Navy for EIGHT years. He finally got on with AA with 1500TT....(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and mostly CL thrust ME time. He stayed with them for 32 years, flew the 747 while AA had them. Never furloughed... etc. Just sailed through. Made millions, literally then retired. He is a shining star of "The Golden Age of Pilot Jobs". There was certainly a lot of gold... Now it seems all that is left is grey and matterless. No gold here. We missed the rush!

Tinpusher007

I have a question for all those who say that airline pilot wannabees are ruining the industry by accepting jobs for low pay. What are those guys supposed to do, exactly? They can make no demands on pay walking in the door. The union doesn't even know them (because they get no money from them). Are they supposed to put their careers on hold to improve the pay and QOL of incumbent pilots? Pilots who do have a voice in collective bargaining and on some level AGREED to the contracts that pay peanuts. Are all the prospective newhires supposed to back off so that management has no cheap labor to come in and keep them in business. Im not trying to inflame anyone, I am asking all these questions seriously, and I do appreciate where the incumbent pilots are coming from. I agree that this is a dying profession with adequate compensation in a deep downward spiral. But I too may be looking to get on with a regioanl airline to build my turbine time and then I would like a job with Netjets or some other fractional rather than the majors. But for ppl like me, we are stuck in a big catch 22...ie...we need hours to get a job, but also need a job to get hours. Anyway, honest answers and input would be appreciated.

ERJ135

I definitly agree. I am at the point of applying and its like what I am supposed to do? I need to get the turbine time whether its an RJ or Beech but the pay is horrible. Thats a least for first year. Some of the RJ operators are little better second year and as a Capt on the RJ you earn a modest income. I have said the exact same things, what am I supposed to do? I am hoping to get into the Legacys someday unless I find a nice cushy part 91 job. So until things change I am going to working $18 an hour first year.

rickair7777

You're correct for the most part, it IS our fault. However what has changed in the last 5 years or so is the increased use of PFT pilots...

In addition to the operational experience aspect of accumulating 1000+ hours as a CFI, you also see certain unpleasant aspects of aviation employment, ESPECIALLY the QOL abuses that are universally perpetrated by aviation employers in a non-contract environment. By the time you're done with that you've had enough of working for peanuts and getting abused.

The PFT folks come in on an airline seniority list with no clue; they go through their learning process while earning seniority ahead of the CFI's and while driving down the compensation of the industry as a whole. additionally they are willing to work at any airline that will hire them, while CFI's tend to be morte selective (I know some who refuse to take a job at Mesa, even after they were rejected by SKW).

A pilot's group negotiating horsepower can be severly impacted by PFT, if there is enough junior PFT on property, it makes it very difficult to strike. The reason for this is that typically a junior regional pilot would be willing to quit or strike and go work somewhere else if conditions are bad enough...but the PFT crowd CAN'T get a job elsewhere, so they are afraid to strike and risk killing the company or getting furloughed...the last thing a PFT airline pilot wants to do is wind up on the streets and need to get a CFI to build PIC time....

Management is very adept at feeding the fears of the inexperienced with threats of doom, gloom, furloughs, slow upgrade, etc.

Rofzu

I'm no PFT nor CFI, but how many folks have the PFT'ers brought with them.
100 PFT's=100 pilots/ 100 CFI's=500? 600? 1000? new pilots..To me this seem's where the overload in pilots come from.
This industry needs a fix, attacking one group for "bringing down the profession woes" gets us nowhere.. I don't have any answers anyone else??


Rofzu.

rickair7777

I'm not attacking. I'm trying to educate the new folks that PFT will likely be held against them at some point during their career.

A typical CFI will train lots of students, but most are recreational. Typically, I'd guess that each CFI during a 1-2 year career will train one CFI/future airline guy...his replacement.