Regionals "out to get you?"
10-28-2017, 06:56 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by Duesenflieger
He must be kidding. There is no way in heck that someone could pass upgrade without being able to demonstrate that they can divert.
10-28-2017, 11:19 AM
#42
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
I'm on the corporate side now but, from what I gather, some of the pilots who fail get sort of 'deer in the headlights' during initial upgrade.
Its not that they can't perform, they just don't perform when they are being intimidated. I heard of a few outfits that only have one week of ground and four sims and they call this upgrade training. Upgrade failures between 50 - 75 % at these places so its plausible that these failures are intentional or minimal effort is put forth to ensure these pilots are stuck. This would also be very difficult to prove as there are a myriad of ways in which one can fail.
Its easy to see how a pilot that is accustomed to taking their time and doing things right would not respond well to being rushed through the upgrade cycle. Its not for lack of skills and not always for lack of knowledge in my opinion.
Its not that they can't perform, they just don't perform when they are being intimidated. I heard of a few outfits that only have one week of ground and four sims and they call this upgrade training. Upgrade failures between 50 - 75 % at these places so its plausible that these failures are intentional or minimal effort is put forth to ensure these pilots are stuck. This would also be very difficult to prove as there are a myriad of ways in which one can fail.
Its easy to see how a pilot that is accustomed to taking their time and doing things right would not respond well to being rushed through the upgrade cycle. Its not for lack of skills and not always for lack of knowledge in my opinion.
10-28-2017, 02:18 PM
#43
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by Incontinentius
I'm on the corporate side now but, from what I gather, some of the pilots who fail get sort of 'deer in the headlights' during initial upgrade.
Its not that they can't perform, they just don't perform when they are being intimidated. I heard of a few outfits that only have one week of ground and four sims and they call this upgrade training. Upgrade failures between 50 - 75 % at these places so its plausible that these failures are intentional or minimal effort is put forth to ensure these pilots are stuck. This would also be very difficult to prove as there are a myriad of ways in which one can fail.
Its easy to see how a pilot that is accustomed to taking their time and doing things right would not respond well to being rushed through the upgrade cycle. Its not for lack of skills and not always for lack of knowledge in my opinion.
Its not that they can't perform, they just don't perform when they are being intimidated. I heard of a few outfits that only have one week of ground and four sims and they call this upgrade training. Upgrade failures between 50 - 75 % at these places so its plausible that these failures are intentional or minimal effort is put forth to ensure these pilots are stuck. This would also be very difficult to prove as there are a myriad of ways in which one can fail.
Its easy to see how a pilot that is accustomed to taking their time and doing things right would not respond well to being rushed through the upgrade cycle. Its not for lack of skills and not always for lack of knowledge in my opinion.
One week and 4 sims should be enough for upgrade, if you're already flying the airplane. Since everybody pretty much gets a PIC type as a new-hire these days, all you need to do is learn to land from the left seat and bone up on some GOM/FOM stuff. Frankly you can easily totally prepare yourself while flying the line (CA's are usually happy to discuss it), so all you need to learn is landing from the left seat. Should be very similar to recurrent AQP...
10-28-2017, 02:38 PM
#44
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by rickair7777
One week and 4 sims should be enough for upgrade, if you're already flying the airplane. Since everybody pretty much gets a PIC type as a new-hire these days, all you need to do is learn to land from the left seat and bone up on some GOM/FOM stuff. Frankly you can easily totally prepare yourself while flying the line (CA's are usually happy to discuss it), so all you need to learn is landing from the left seat. Should be very similar to recurrent AQP...
As I understand it, its night and day difference which makes no sense at all unless some of the lower tier regionals deliberately do the minimum.
10-28-2017, 02:45 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: Not an RJ driver anymore
Posts: 1,033
at my previous outfit, the training department in a certain fleet was very much "out to get" people. The oral exams were extremely difficult and the checkride in the sims were all over the place. Some bitter pilots they let do checkrides were loving their newfound power
10-28-2017, 03:56 PM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by rickair7777
One week and 4 sims should be enough for upgrade, if you're already flying the airplane. Since everybody pretty much gets a PIC type as a new-hire these days, all you need to do is learn to land from the left seat and bone up on some GOM/FOM stuff. Frankly you can easily totally prepare yourself while flying the line (CA's are usually happy to discuss it), so all you need to learn is landing from the left seat. Should be very similar to recurrent AQP...
10-28-2017, 08:47 PM
#47
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by 123494
I think there’s more to it than that. I have about 400hrs SIC and I think I would need to increase my decision making skills and “thinking ahead of the airplane” before I’d consider upgrading. Plus all the added responsibility.
10-28-2017, 10:14 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 503
I have a really good decision making model I used during upgrade training and apply it to the line.
Is it safe?
Is it legal?
Is it efficient?
Can I backup my decision?
Did I use all available resources? ATC, DX, my FO etc.
First trip off OE I had to divert. Figures.
Is it safe?
Is it legal?
Is it efficient?
Can I backup my decision?
Did I use all available resources? ATC, DX, my FO etc.
First trip off OE I had to divert. Figures.
10-29-2017, 11:58 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Downwind, headed straight for the rocks, shanghaied aboard the ship of fools.
Posts: 1,128
Originally Posted by pete2800
But it's so much fun to turn the other guy's marker beacon volume all the way up when he least expects it!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
