OO vs. YX
02-26-2019 | 11:38 AM
#51
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,137
Likes: 797
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Also WO's serve as capacity accumulators because the parent can downsize flying as needed. To do that at an independent regional they need to pay huge penalties to get out of contracts early, or find an excuse to fire them (the later has happened a few times).
WO's have also been shut down and liquidated for simple convenience (not AA). When you say "American Eagle" that has quite a different meaning today than when I started in the industry. Today's it's a marketing slogan. Back then it was an airline with a near-monopoly on AA feed, which could have been sold off at one point. Envoy is lucky to still be WO.
Something to consider in your decision making.
02-26-2019 | 11:49 AM
#52
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Historical fact... AA had flow in the past and it went away real fast at one point.
Also WO's serve as capacity accumulators because the parent can downsize flying as needed. To do that at an independent regional they need to pay huge penalties to get out of contracts early, or find an excuse to fire them (the later has happened a few times).
WO's have also been shut down and liquidated for simple convenience (not AA). When you say "American Eagle" that has quite a different meaning today than when I started in the industry. Today's it's a brand. Back then it was an airline with a near-monopoly on AA feed, which could have been sold off at one point. Envoy is lucky to still be WO.
Something to consider in your decision making.
Also WO's serve as capacity accumulators because the parent can downsize flying as needed. To do that at an independent regional they need to pay huge penalties to get out of contracts early, or find an excuse to fire them (the later has happened a few times).
WO's have also been shut down and liquidated for simple convenience (not AA). When you say "American Eagle" that has quite a different meaning today than when I started in the industry. Today's it's a brand. Back then it was an airline with a near-monopoly on AA feed, which could have been sold off at one point. Envoy is lucky to still be WO.
Something to consider in your decision making.
I'd say the AA WO's did pretty well during those years. Yes, they downsized, but looking at the turmoil rest of the regional industry went through, AA WO wasn't a bad place to be.
Currently, there are no 10 year CA's at any WO's who are there because they can't move on. There are plenty of them at other regionals. So yes, the flow works, even though there was a 7-8 year gap because of the lost decade.
So based on the history lessons, I would say AA WOs are definitely some of the more stable regionals to be in. And currently they have other added benefits too - fast upgrades, no training delays and so on.
02-26-2019 | 12:37 PM
#53
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 788
Likes: 0
I think I misunderstand what your trying to say.. if you go over block at Skywest you still get paid for it.
02-26-2019 | 12:48 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 297
From: 737 FO
Yea, but we aren’t the only one who does it this way. That’s also a different discussion to have. I was more pointing out the inaccuracy of his post. He actually thinks that we only get paid block/historical credit which is not true at all. He actually thought that if we blocked 3 hours on a flight due to deice, flow etc that was only scheduled at 1:45 we only get paid 1:45, which is absolutely false.
02-26-2019 | 01:09 PM
#55
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
02-26-2019 | 01:15 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop Observer
PDT/PSA flow is slower, that's true. Envoy has a good program going on. PDT/PSA will get better, everyone knows that, except the forum negative nancies who think they can run an airline better than their management can.
Your history lesson does not apply to AA. American Eagle has been going on for a very long time. I would be much more concerned if I was at Endeavor or Republic, when a recession hits.
"doesn't offer anything", the flow is pretty darn valuable for a lot of people. I turned down CJOs from Republic and Endeavor to go to Envoy, because their value proposition was the best for me. No regional contract is worth commuting for. And to hold CA within a reasonable commute for me would take years and years at those places. I dodged a huge bullet with them - The people who started indoc the same time I started mine aren't even in sims yet, and I'm almost consolidated. I'm months ahead already.
YX upgrades are sub-2 years only for very uncommutable bases. How long is it to hold YX CA at ORD, or IAH? 7-8 years?
Your history lesson does not apply to AA. American Eagle has been going on for a very long time. I would be much more concerned if I was at Endeavor or Republic, when a recession hits.
"doesn't offer anything", the flow is pretty darn valuable for a lot of people. I turned down CJOs from Republic and Endeavor to go to Envoy, because their value proposition was the best for me. No regional contract is worth commuting for. And to hold CA within a reasonable commute for me would take years and years at those places. I dodged a huge bullet with them - The people who started indoc the same time I started mine aren't even in sims yet, and I'm almost consolidated. I'm months ahead already.
YX upgrades are sub-2 years only for very uncommutable bases. How long is it to hold YX CA at ORD, or IAH? 7-8 years?
02-26-2019 | 01:17 PM
#57
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 116
Likes: 7
If you go under marketed block you get paid historical credit. Sometimes this is more than scheduled block and sometimes it’s less. It’s a number the company comes up with by averaging all of the block times for that segment over the year. So scheduled block might be 1:45. Historical credit might be 1:35. If you fly it in 1:20 you get paid 1:35. If you fly it in 1:40 you get 1:40. If you fly it in 2:25 you get 2:25. So it’s “historical credit or better” not “block or better”.
02-26-2019 | 01:32 PM
#58
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
My QOL is great here. Beats flying 15 minute hops in a 200.
02-26-2019 | 01:49 PM
#59
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 116
Likes: 7
Who is flying 15 min hops in a 200? Been at OO less than a year, only 2 months reserve, now a line holder. In a base with no 200s. Credit 85-95 hours a month. Have you seen the Envoy 145 flying out of DFW? Must be fun flying 15 min hops to Tyler, Waco, Texarkana, and Shepard every day.
02-26-2019 | 01:50 PM
#60
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Who is flying 15 min hops in a 200? Been at OO less than a year, only 2 months reserve, now a line holder. In a base with no 200s. Credit 85-95 hours a month. Have you seen the Envoy 145 flying out of DFW? Must be fun flying 15 min hops to Tyler, Waco, Texarkana, and Shepard every day.
