Dera, I’m starting to think you live in a fantasy world filled with unicorns and rainbows. No one is arguing which personal lucky situation is better. We’re talking about what the average new hire can expect. I don’t know about Envoy, but PSA and Piedmont flows are both around 10 years. Reserve is close to a year and increasing. At PSA, we’ve become extremely fat on pilots. With literally half of the airline on reserve... a new hire today will have to move up 450 spots on a 1900 pilot seniority list to hold a line. Currently that much movement will take about 16-22 months even accounting for new aircraft deliveries.

You claim the WOs are stable. When I started at PSA in 2014, Envoy was downsizing. 2 years before that Envoy was strongly rumored to be sold off.

You claim captain pay at Envoy sucks but FO pay is about the same everywhere. This proves you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. It’s more than just pay rates. 2nd year FOs at Endeavor, Republic, Skywest, Expressjet, and Air Wisconsin are all making more than any 5 year captain at the AA wholly owneds and they don’t have to fly their butt off to do it.

 

Careful, or Dera will say you contribute nothing and that you aren't even a pilot...

 

I've made it pretty obvious that my comments are for Envoy 175 new hire. It's been a 50/50 chance lately, so pretty much by definition, what average new hire can expect.
The union number, which is very pessimistic obviously, is 8.8 years for a new hire. First 2 months, I moved up 6 months. It will be 6-7 years unless there's a huge world event that messes everyone up. Those are impossible to forecast so no point to add them to any reasonable prediction.

I sincerely hope PSA/PDT will get improvements soon. Right now the prospects aren't great there.

And yes, AA WO's have been relatively stable in the regional industry. Look back 20 years and you see what I mean. Nothing is 100% stable when it comes to regionals, that's a fact.

And sorry you didn't understand what I meant by the FO pay. I should've been more clear. I meant year 1-2 pay. At Envoy, you will upgrade around year 2, so anything beyond that doesn't matter. After that you go to CA pay, and yes, it sucks.

 

Hello guys please seeking advice. 2000Hrs SIC time B738, flying in Europe. Relocation to Yankee because of family,
Please I will like to know more about job opportunities and quick upgrades for 1000TPIC ...
Thanks

 

That’s a dangerous way of thinking, and straight out of a recruiter’s playbook. Don’t take that bait.



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Over 87 at YX is 125%. That is not per credit hour, that is block hour or deadhead time.

 

4 points here

1. You did not make it obvious at first. Your first few comments on this thread were pretty broad making it sound like anyone hired at Envoy will have a similar situation as you (which btw, isn’t that great).

2. The union number for flow is actually pretty accurate. Of course you move up the list very quickly at first. Same as the PSA pilots, but that trend doesn’t continue. New hires will move up 20-30 spots a month when they first start and then it will greatly slow down. I’m in the top 30% at PSA. Besides the flow pilots I’ve only moved up 0-3 spots a month for the past year.

3. So you’re saying the past 4-5 years might have been crappy for Envoy, but as long as you were willing to stay 20 years eventually everything will come back around.

4. I still don’t understand what the heck you’re talking about. You’re saying since you upgrade after 2 years at Envoy pay doesn’t matter beyond that? What?! Almost every regional is upgrading pilots after 2-3 years. Those people go from making more as an FO than any AA wholly owned captain.... to making literally 30k-70k more than you do once they upgrade in about the same amount of time as you. How many of your regular line flying captains at Envoy are making 130k+++ as a captain after 3-4 years?

You sound like an Amish person who’s never left the farm to see what else is out there.

 

OO upgrade is back under 1 year. 6/18 DOH. Was just awarded.

 

Ok, so what's the rest of the story? Previous 121 time? Military? Prior stint at OO? There's no way that's a CFI who showed up last June with 1,000 hours total time.

 

Uh. Obviously.