I'm not so sure I understand what you guys are saying. If the company were to relocate the entire company and force everyone to move, then yes you would either move, or quit. I'm not sure how you guys see the senior guys saying that they should be able to choose where the company does business just because they are senior. I don't ever hear guys saying that. I do hear guys responding though to thoughts of moving business to an unpleasant place just to get guys to quit though(which by the way is a very unrealistic practice.) The company will shed whether they move business or not.

If you are not sure of ANY industry where the senior folks of a seniority system are due entitlement, then you haven't looked. That is simply how a seniority system works. That is definitely how a unionized system works. Look at the UAW. Tell those senior folks that have put in 20+ years to quit shouting. Not likely.....

As far as the buyouts go, the deadline closes on the 23rd of Feb. After that, whatever happens with displacement happens. I highly doubt there will be another package offered after this one hasn't really been successful.

 

Interesting how when times get a little tough, people's true nature starts to show.

What is wrong with not wanting to commute?

What is wrong with wanting to own a nice home on a Comair pilot's salary? Or any home, if we're talking New York?

What is wrong with wanting to maximize the time one spends with loved ones, and minimize the amount of time spent with an employer who secretly despises you?

None of those are worse than plotting ways to get people senior to you to quit just so you can get that upgrade you're entitled to sooner.

Absolutely pathetic.

Carry on children.

 

Turbodog,
You misread my statement. Please read it again, 'cause I believe we might be agreeing on some points.
Btw, the only entitlement seniority affords a person is an early choice. Whether that is schedule, position, advancement, etc. It does not guarantee where or how a company is going to do business just because of domicile. I do not want to advance at the result of someone's lost job. But if the company "shifts regions" and those above me are not willing/able to move/commute with it, then it's a different story.
Btw, please point out ANY industry where the senior rank and file employees tell the company what they are entitled to.

 

Displaced... boo hoo.. at least you have a job.... I believe I am going to get laid off again....

 

I'm not debating the niceties of what you listed. I'm also not denying a senior pilots right to choose within their seniority. What I am tired of is any pilot's "belief" that they're ENTITLED to whatever they want. The seniority system is way out of whack in this industry, and that's not even debatable. It has the potential to cause far more harm than good, and has proved that point on numerous occasions throughout the last 25 years. But i digress....

That aside, there's nothing we can do about the system itself. The problem therein lies in the whining and complaining that some in the top 20% do.

This is a unique job, where you can pretty much live wherever you want. Some chose to move to CVG, as that seemed a logical choice, as it was/is Comair's fortress. Things are changing, and there's a real possibility that CVG will no longer be Comair's mega hub it might be moving, or shifting a great deal to the northeast.

It is absolutely no secret that there are those who ADAMANTLY refuse to go to JFK. Some avoid that airport like the plague, and have vehemently opposed any suggestion of moving or being moved to JFK. What's mature about that?

THESE are the people I am speaking about. I have no qualms about them wanting to be with their families..but c'mon. You're AIRLINE PILOTS.

They take it as a mortal sin that THEY'VE been inconvenienced by this company going to heck in a hand-basket. Many around these people are being furloughed very early on in their careers, have no health insurance, and can't find a job to pay off their student loans, and can barely afford to put food on their table. Or the 7 year captains who got downgraded, took a 40% paycut and don't have a choice of where they end up...not to mention they're on reserve...again....

Yet there are a select few who complain because their seniority entitles them to?

I don't think so..it's ridiculous..that's my main point.

Call it childish if you want, but the pouting of 40-60 year old MEN is what's childish.

Rant #2 over

 

andy:


Myself and a lot if other people agree with you. Good post.


EDIT: After re-reading your post, I'd just like to add, that I do feel bad for some of the more senior folks. They have been here since the strike, and the figured that they could simply retire here. They simply banked that Comair would not end up in the situation that management has put us in. If we were at Comair 9 year ago, and said that CVG might be closing as a base, or at least possibly shrinking below the size of JFK, we would have been laughed at.

As you pointed out, we are airline pilots, and change is what we do. I do believe that this is more a management tactic to get more people to quit than anything else. Honestly, I do feel bad that manegment is using the reduction in QOL to same money.

 

Right on Andy.

 

As a 25+ year "Crusty old fart", I agree with you. If the company wants to send us to Siberia we’ll have to make a free market choice. Go, commute, or quit.


“For this is the Tragedy of Man---Circumstances change, but he does not”
-Machiavelli

.

 

Great post and I agree completely. The damned thing about it all, is that the only reason the company wants to make you move is to ruin QOL. Its really sad, actually.

 

Here, here!