Originally Posted by GrUpGrDn

5 years on furlough

Originally Posted by GrUpGrDn

5 years on furlough

Originally Posted by BobSakamano

Or, more likely, when Delta decides to take it away. They've already lowered the status to S3CR, one baby step above a buddy pass.

Originally Posted by irrelevant

Personally, I don't think the strike had as big an impact on Comair's future as did lack of control and lack of leadership. If one looks back, after the entrepreneurial spirit that originally brought the jet to the regionals was eliminated by Delta, Comair leadership never did much of anything to keep the airline at the head of the pack. In fact, by 2006 it appeared though every department at Comair had a horse to hitch to the wagon, each department was hitching to a different part of the wagon. By 2007, every department was flogging their horse as hard as they could, and tearing the wagon apart in the process. The lack of leadership lead to poor morale in every part of the organization, and the one thing Comair still did really well - perform in tough situations, disappeared. Comair has not had "operational control" of its destiny since Delta bought it.

Here's just one example, from a pilot's perspective. Flight operations demands crews fly slow...roughly 10% slower than every other regional airline in the Delta "family", or perhaps more appropriately "harem". Meanwhile Leadership screams that crews are getting paid too much. Guess what? If it takes me six extra minutes per hour to do the same job a CHQ, YV, ASA, or SKW pilot can do in that same hour, crew costs are going to be ten percent higher even if book rate and experience level are equal. Don't tell me I'm paid too much when you're also telling me not to be productive. It makes you appear you never advanced farther than third-grade math.

Just because those airframes were on the books to be delivered to Comair prior to the strike doesn't mean Delta couldn't have scribbled down a transfer agreement on the back of a cocktail napkin and rolled those airframes over to ASA. Seems like that happened with some -700's or -900's just a couple of years after the strike if I recall correctly.

Comair quit out-innovating other regional airlines, and the competition caught up. Comair became bloated with ineffeciency...far beyond the flight deck...just look at that ridiculous monstrosity of a G.O. building they built.

The contract that was achieved in 2001, due to the strike, or in spite of it, was a contract that, at the time, helped make Comair a potential career airline for many pilots whose personal situation made staying a better option than pursuing what few opportunities there were for a number of years after 9/11. From that perspective, the contract contributed to the "longevity", or as I prefer, "experience" handicap Comair has today.

It didn't help that after the pilots at Comair raised the bar at the regional level, Chautauqua pilots voted to slip under it with their next contract. Perhaps had 9/11 not occurred, they'd have been more willing to do what it took to get a better contract than Comair had. Perhaps not.

Those are some of my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.

Originally Posted by skywatch

I disagree. Of course the strike had a huge impact on Comair's future. It opened the door for CHQ, Pinnacle, Big Sky, Mesa, Freedom, and anyone else that wanted to fly for Delta (and could do it cheaper) to walk in and start taking business from Comair. Prior to the strike, there were three DC carriers - Skywest, Comair, ASA. Comair was huge, and the strike took out A LOT of the Delta Operation. After the strike, don't you think it occured to Delta that if they used a lot of different carriers, that any one striking regional airline could not take out 40% of the regional flights, maybe at most 20%? And in the process of adding these other carriers, they figured out that they could do it a lot cheaper?

Here, let me type this so you can read it over and over - there is no such thing as a career regional airline - there never should be. If you want to fly big planes and get paid big, go fly for a Major. period. All the contract did was ensure the ultimate demise, because "career" pilots (20 year captains) at regionals only raise costs ensuring you cannot compete with other regional airlines and ultimately shrink.

Here's an example for you of some third grade math from an accountants perspective - if you fly slower and save 400 lbs of jet fuel at $3 a gallon, that's 180 dollars of fuel you saved versus an extra 6 minutes of pay for a CA, FO, and FA that amounts to what, an extra $17-18 you paid the crew? So you actually save $160 on the leg? Did it occur to you that is what flying a cost index is all about? Did you know that every airplane in Delta's fleet uses cost index to fly? Maybe when they talk about expensive crews, they are talking about the 20 year FA and the 20 year CA in the Comair airplane vs. the 5 year FA and the 5 year CA in the Mesa airplane?

And as far as the big bloated GO that got built, you may want to revisit your timeline. That was designed and built by the same leaders you adore, the ones that innovated and brought in the jet.

Long story short - if you think the strike had no impact on Comair, rather Comair failed because of the big GO and PPAS, you are living in a dream world.

Originally Posted by skywatch

I disagree. Of course the strike had a huge impact on Comair's future. It opened the door for CHQ, Pinnacle, Big Sky, Mesa, Freedom, and anyone else that wanted to fly for Delta (and could do it cheaper) to walk in and start taking business from Comair. Prior to the strike, there were three DC carriers - Skywest, Comair, ASA. Comair was huge, and the strike took out A LOT of the Delta Operation. After the strike, don't you think it occured to Delta that if they used a lot of different carriers, that any one striking regional airline could not take out 40% of the regional flights, maybe at most 20%? And in the process of adding these other carriers, they figured out that they could do it a lot cheaper?

Here, let me type this so you can read it over and over - there is no such thing as a career regional airline - there never should be. If you want to fly big planes and get paid big, go fly for a Major. period. All the contract did was ensure the ultimate demise, because "career" pilots (20 year captains) at regionals only raise costs ensuring you cannot compete with other regional airlines and ultimately shrink.

Here's an example for you of some third grade math from an accountants perspective - if you fly slower and save 400 lbs of jet fuel at $3 a gallon, that's 180 dollars of fuel you saved versus an extra 6 minutes of pay for a CA, FO, and FA that amounts to what, an extra $17-18 you paid the crew? So you actually save $160 on the leg? Did it occur to you that is what flying a cost index is all about? Did you know that every airplane in Delta's fleet uses cost index to fly? Maybe when they talk about expensive crews, they are talking about the 20 year FA and the 20 year CA in the Comair airplane vs. the 5 year FA and the 5 year CA in the Mesa airplane?

And as far as the big bloated GO that got built, you may want to revisit your timeline. That was designed and built by the same leaders you adore, the ones that innovated and brought in the jet.

Long story short - if you think the strike had no impact on Comair, rather Comair failed because of the big GO and PPAS, you are living in a dream world.