Comair updates?
02-17-2014 | 09:26 AM
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From: DAL A320 CA
I can understand your frustration. 9/11 screwed everything up, or was at least used as an excuse to screw everything up. The sequence of events went about as badly as it possibly could have. I didn't intend to say that the Delta pilots 'sold their soul' or anything of the sort. No one saw this insane RJ-boom coming. My only goal was to point out that subcontractor growth isn't usually due to the decisions of the subcontractor. That said, if there's one thing I wish we could change in this industry, it would be more unity and collaboration between the mainline and regional levels. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Well said, Pete..
02-17-2014 | 09:36 AM
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+ 1
Also, I would like to go on the record as a Comair pilot (Ret.) that when JC Lawson wrote that famous letter he did not ask me to proofread it for him. It is the opinion of most of the people that I have talked with that JC pretty much went off the reservation with that letter.
Also, I would like to go on the record as a Comair pilot (Ret.) that when JC Lawson wrote that famous letter he did not ask me to proofread it for him. It is the opinion of most of the people that I have talked with that JC pretty much went off the reservation with that letter.
[VENT]
Yeah, he went so far off the reservation that he got reelected and then became CMR's ALPA EVP.
I hold no animus for the former CMR pilots and I count as friends several guys that were terribly impacted by the shutdown. Yet I can't stand revisionist history. CMR pilots elected and reelected the leadership that during C2K refused to sign a mutual support pact with mainline and allowed the Lawson letter to stand with no public rebuke, censure or recall. So you guys did get asked to proofread... [/vent]
[/Rant]
The last few pages of posts show a lack of understanding of why CMR was shut down and why Endeavor got bent over. It's got nothing to do with vendettas, revenge or other black helicopter theories. It's got everything to do with economics, math and leverage.
Last edited by slowplay; 02-17-2014 at 10:06 AM. Reason: proofreading...
02-17-2014 | 01:14 PM
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Herc, my comment to remember Comair is about standing up to management Tyranny, pure and simple.
When Northwest bought Delta, Richard Anderson made no secret of the hatred he felt toward Comair and its' pilot group. He was determined to teach everyone in the regional industry this is what happens when you dare to change the status quo. I spoke to him face to face personally at a meeting in CVG at a Delta only meeting and when I mentioned Comairs' future he looked at me like I strangled his wife. I knew then it was over.
I as well as other pilots went to Comair during a time of economic turmoil. Comair hired us, I worked as a CSA and we couldn't wait for the Comair to start growing again, as we would be transferred to flight ops. However Richard had something else in mind and carried it out, in the process throwing a huge wrench in thousands of peoples' lives, namely all of CVG.
You can try to argue that point but look at what he did to Endeavour (Pinnacle) trying to force a concessionary contract on them (poverty wages) at a time when Delta is making RECORD PROFITS. Did he not say that if Endeavour didn't accept the contract they would become the next Comair?
What about the Eagle Pilots? US Airways group is also making record profits but told Eagle if you don't take these concessions we will make you Comair 2. If management can use Remember Comair as a rallying cry to screw over a professional labor force then we as pilots can use it to remember a group of professionals that stood up to management tyranny and said no more!
Now about your Vendetta against Comair pilots - so an entire workforce had it out to screw over Delta mainline pilots so that is the reason he shut Comair down? All 2000+ pilots? SERIOUSLY????? Herc I am going to defer this to someone in the know or I am sure if you did a search of this thread, type in Comair MEC or management,
perhaps that may enlighten you. I personally have yet to meet one Comair pilot that had it out for you guys. But please, opposing views are always welcome here.
Lets' face it, Deltas' current CEO is a complete anal orifice who Eagles' manangement tried to copy and I watched with pleasure as it blew up in their face. This fight this phrase to REMEMBER COMAIR is not about Delta and Comair pilots ****ing match, its' about management trying to intimidate a work group into concessions or be shut down like Comair and that work group, any work group saying yes, we remember Comair and we're not taking it anymore just like they didn't!!
REMEMBER COMAIR!!
Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It (Official Video) - YouTube
When Northwest bought Delta, Richard Anderson made no secret of the hatred he felt toward Comair and its' pilot group. He was determined to teach everyone in the regional industry this is what happens when you dare to change the status quo. I spoke to him face to face personally at a meeting in CVG at a Delta only meeting and when I mentioned Comairs' future he looked at me like I strangled his wife. I knew then it was over.
I as well as other pilots went to Comair during a time of economic turmoil. Comair hired us, I worked as a CSA and we couldn't wait for the Comair to start growing again, as we would be transferred to flight ops. However Richard had something else in mind and carried it out, in the process throwing a huge wrench in thousands of peoples' lives, namely all of CVG.
You can try to argue that point but look at what he did to Endeavour (Pinnacle) trying to force a concessionary contract on them (poverty wages) at a time when Delta is making RECORD PROFITS. Did he not say that if Endeavour didn't accept the contract they would become the next Comair?
What about the Eagle Pilots? US Airways group is also making record profits but told Eagle if you don't take these concessions we will make you Comair 2. If management can use Remember Comair as a rallying cry to screw over a professional labor force then we as pilots can use it to remember a group of professionals that stood up to management tyranny and said no more!
Now about your Vendetta against Comair pilots - so an entire workforce had it out to screw over Delta mainline pilots so that is the reason he shut Comair down? All 2000+ pilots? SERIOUSLY????? Herc I am going to defer this to someone in the know or I am sure if you did a search of this thread, type in Comair MEC or management,
perhaps that may enlighten you. I personally have yet to meet one Comair pilot that had it out for you guys. But please, opposing views are always welcome here.
Lets' face it, Deltas' current CEO is a complete anal orifice who Eagles' manangement tried to copy and I watched with pleasure as it blew up in their face. This fight this phrase to REMEMBER COMAIR is not about Delta and Comair pilots ****ing match, its' about management trying to intimidate a work group into concessions or be shut down like Comair and that work group, any work group saying yes, we remember Comair and we're not taking it anymore just like they didn't!!
REMEMBER COMAIR!!
Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It (Official Video) - YouTube
BTW, all this reminiscing about the JC letter reminds me of an infamous letter to the editor in the local Cincinnati fish-wrapper written by a CMR pilot at the height of their best years...it said something to the affect that DL pilots were greedy and grossly overpaid, and that was going to pave the way to their demise, and the continued ascendancy of Comair....anyone else remember that letter?
02-17-2014 | 01:35 PM
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From: B757/767
You can try to argue that point but look at what he did to Endeavour (Pinnacle) trying to force a concessionary contract on them (poverty wages) at a time when Delta is making RECORD PROFITS. Did he not say that if Endeavour didn't accept the contract they would become the next Comair?
How did RA force that contract on 9E pilots? Was RA the CEO of 9E? Is he now? And was that contract imposed on 9E pilots? Or was it ratified by the 9E pilot group?
02-17-2014 | 03:52 PM
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The straw that broke the camel's back at 9E was Delta withholding training costs they agreed to pay. You don't think Delta could force most of their DCI partners into BK within months if they wanted? Why do you think the first JCBA at 9E (one of the top contracts at the time) after the merger was finished in a matter of months despite the original 9E group being in negations for 6 years? It is surprising that you are selling RA and your current management team so short now after singing such high praises of them in the past.
02-17-2014 | 04:29 PM
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From: 737 Left
In the past you couldn't say enough good things about the guy, you practically worship him. Now you are saying you don't think he is smart enough to force 9E in bankruptcy? You always give him so much credit for being so smart in other aspects of the Delta enterprise.
The straw that broke the camel's back at 9E was Delta withholding training costs they agreed to pay. You don't think Delta could force most of their DCI partners into BK within months if they wanted? Why do you think the first JCBA at 9E (one of the top contracts at the time) after the merger was finished in a matter of months despite the original 9E group being in negations for 6 years? It is surprising that you are selling RA and your current management team so short now after singing such high praises of them in the past.
The straw that broke the camel's back at 9E was Delta withholding training costs they agreed to pay. You don't think Delta could force most of their DCI partners into BK within months if they wanted? Why do you think the first JCBA at 9E (one of the top contracts at the time) after the merger was finished in a matter of months despite the original 9E group being in negations for 6 years? It is surprising that you are selling RA and your current management team so short now after singing such high praises of them in the past.
Richard Anderson is a fantastic airline manager. He might honestly be the best CEO in history. Good labor relations, record profits, and an airline that people want to fly on.
02-17-2014 | 04:43 PM
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You can try to argue that point but look at what he did to Endeavour (Pinnacle) trying to force a concessionary contract on them (poverty wages) at a time when Delta is making RECORD PROFITS. Did he not say that if Endeavour didn't accept the contract they would become the next Comair?
02-17-2014 | 05:29 PM
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It was ratified by the 9E pilot group, just like all of the mainline contracts. Pilots have the exact industry the majority voted for.
02-17-2014 | 06:55 PM
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Why do pilots call for unity when there is still a double standard and discriminatory practices still in affect? My question, how can we have true unity without across the board EQUALITY? Not meaning to throw stones but mistakes made by mainline pilots, showing up drunk, landing at wrong airports or taxiway, you name it....etc I and most regional pilots do not hold the entire body of mainline pilots accountable for the mistakes of so few. Such is not the case for regionals. We still have those so called undesirables or perceived incompetence of some regional pilots so that makes the majority must be incompetent and not equal to a mainline pilot. There's a double standard.
I did not have the privilege to be a Comair pilot. Some time ago I read in AW&ST mag that based on RPM Comair could have been considered a major airline. We all know what happened when Comair pilots tried to go by "single carrier status"and date of hire seniority. But Western Airlines and NWA did not have problems like Comair pilots when they merged. Even if you (a regional pilot) are not a threat to a mainline pilots seniority they still will use what ever means possible to prevent regional pilots from receiving equal treatment. It isn't a merger, similar gage equipment or what ever bla, bla, bla or anything they can come up with.
Even agreements that are on the books are NOT honored. Mesaba pilots had a flow agreement with NWA. After DAL/NWA merger DAL did not honor that agreement except for a mere few. You think that would happen like that if Mesaba was a major? Tell me if I am wrong but as it stands now any major can buy a regional and throw the pilots to the curb. (Pretty much what DAL did to Comair) At least the mainline pilots have the Mcaskill Bond Amendment to protect them do regional pilots? What else would you call this and the before mentioned but discrimination?
In UNITY right?
I did not have the privilege to be a Comair pilot. Some time ago I read in AW&ST mag that based on RPM Comair could have been considered a major airline. We all know what happened when Comair pilots tried to go by "single carrier status"and date of hire seniority. But Western Airlines and NWA did not have problems like Comair pilots when they merged. Even if you (a regional pilot) are not a threat to a mainline pilots seniority they still will use what ever means possible to prevent regional pilots from receiving equal treatment. It isn't a merger, similar gage equipment or what ever bla, bla, bla or anything they can come up with.
Even agreements that are on the books are NOT honored. Mesaba pilots had a flow agreement with NWA. After DAL/NWA merger DAL did not honor that agreement except for a mere few. You think that would happen like that if Mesaba was a major? Tell me if I am wrong but as it stands now any major can buy a regional and throw the pilots to the curb. (Pretty much what DAL did to Comair) At least the mainline pilots have the Mcaskill Bond Amendment to protect them do regional pilots? What else would you call this and the before mentioned but discrimination?
In UNITY right?
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