Originally Posted by makersmarc

+ 1

Also, I would like to go on the record as a Comair pilot (Ret.) that when JC Lawson wrote that famous letter he did not ask me to proofread it for him. It is the opinion of most of the people that I have talked with that JC pretty much went off the reservation with that letter.Also, one might form the opinion that SOME Delta pilots were just looking for an excuse, any excuse, to take out their frustration on all Comair pilots.I don't think most Delta pilots are that small.

Originally Posted by On Autopilot

Herc, my comment to remember Comair is about standing up to management Tyranny, pure and simple.
When Northwest bought Delta, Richard Anderson made no secret of the hatred he felt toward Comair and its' pilot group. He was determined to teach everyone in the regional industry this is what happens when you dare to change the status quo. I spoke to him face to face personally at a meeting in CVG at a Delta only meeting and when I mentioned Comairs' future he looked at me like I strangled his wife. I knew then it was over.

I as well as other pilots went to Comair during a time of economic turmoil. Comair hired us, I worked as a CSA and we couldn't wait for the Comair to start growing again, as we would be transferred to flight ops. However Richard had something else in mind and carried it out, in the process throwing a huge wrench in thousands of peoples' lives, namely all of CVG.

You can try to argue that point but look at what he did to Endeavour (Pinnacle) trying to force a concessionary contract on them (poverty wages) at a time when Delta is making RECORD PROFITS. Did he not say that if Endeavour didn't accept the contract they would become the next Comair?

What about the Eagle Pilots? US Airways group is also making record profits but told Eagle if you don't take these concessions we will make you Comair 2. If management can use Remember Comair as a rallying cry to screw over a professional labor force then we as pilots can use it to remember a group of professionals that stood up to management tyranny and said no more!

Now about your Vendetta against Comair pilots - so an entire workforce had it out to screw over Delta mainline pilots so that is the reason he shut Comair down? All 2000+ pilots? SERIOUSLY????? Herc I am going to defer this to someone in the know or I am sure if you did a search of this thread, type in Comair MEC or management,
perhaps that may enlighten you. I personally have yet to meet one Comair pilot that had it out for you guys. But please, opposing views are always welcome here.

Lets' face it, Deltas' current CEO is a complete anal orifice who Eagles' manangement tried to copy and I watched with pleasure as it blew up in their face. This fight this phrase to REMEMBER COMAIR is not about Delta and Comair pilots ****ing match, its' about management trying to intimidate a work group into concessions or be shut down like Comair and that work group, any work group saying yes, we remember Comair and we're not taking it anymore just like they didn't!!
REMEMBER COMAIR!!

Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It (Official Video) - YouTube

Originally Posted by CGfalconHerc

Looks like your hatred toward Anderson is only matched by my opinion of JC Lawson..hopefully that can be common ground moving forward...

Originally Posted by CGfalconHerc

In return for record payrates, DALPA agreed to unlimited 50 seat RJ's to help feed the mainline operation.

Originally Posted by pete2800

So the Delta guys got all hot and bothered over an absolutely massive pay-scale, and were willing to sell the little airplane flying to get it. And then you're angry at Comair when the contract your pilot group voted in gets used as it was drawn up?


I thought the other points you made were actually quite good. It's nice to get a glimpse from the opinion of a mainline guy every now and again. This one though... you're reaching quite a bit.

To be clear, I'm certainly no CPA carrier growth advocate. I'm going to have a beer and a victory cigar every time a regional dies. It is just a bit unfortunate to see things blamed on a regional when they had nothing to do with the contract that caused the snafu.

Originally Posted by CGfalconHerc

Pete,

So the one sentence that "Delta pilots agreed to unlimited 50 seaters in return for C2K pay" makes everything ok?! Ah yes, the greedy delta pilots sold their soul and got what's coming to them. Ygtbsm..

After the successful Comair strike, "unlimited 50 seaters" didn't seem to be enough of a threat to replace nearly all of our 727 and 737 flying. In fact, the C2K negotiating slogan was "Restoring the Profession". Our pay rates, Comair pay rates and RJ growth would be a rising tide for all of us and attract the best pilots to Delta. We were making $1B and hiring 1000 pilots a year..allowing more RJ flying would put more Delta pax on jets vs Brazilia's..which they seemed to want.

Then 9/11...events unfolded as I described previously. We didn't ask for a halt to rj growth. We didn't ask to displace down to the LEFT seat of the jets OUR company was buying to fly OUR passengers...we asked to sit in the RIGHT seat of the most junior plane in return for preferential hiring at OUR company. The whole idea was "we supported RJ guys in the past with the strike AND acknowledging their contribution by agreeing to more rj growth in OUR new contract that raised the bar for EVERYONE.

I also throw back a cold one when an RJ company goes down, but I still have empathy for the pilots, employees, families who have to land on their feet. I've been there, done that. And I certainly don't get " hot and bothered" about a paycheck earned at someone else's expense.

Originally Posted by pete2800

I can understand your frustration. 9/11 screwed everything up, or was at least used as an excuse to screw everything up. The sequence of events went about as badly as it possibly could have. I didn't intend to say that the Delta pilots 'sold their soul' or anything of the sort. No one saw this insane RJ-boom coming. My only goal was to point out that subcontractor growth isn't usually due to the decisions of the subcontractor. That said, if there's one thing I wish we could change in this industry, it would be more unity and collaboration between the mainline and regional levels. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Originally Posted by makersmarc

+ 1

Also, I would like to go on the record as a Comair pilot (Ret.) that when JC Lawson wrote that famous letter he did not ask me to proofread it for him. It is the opinion of most of the people that I have talked with that JC pretty much went off the reservation with that letter.

Originally Posted by On Autopilot

Herc, my comment to remember Comair is about standing up to management Tyranny, pure and simple.
When Northwest bought Delta, Richard Anderson made no secret of the hatred he felt toward Comair and its' pilot group. He was determined to teach everyone in the regional industry this is what happens when you dare to change the status quo. I spoke to him face to face personally at a meeting in CVG at a Delta only meeting and when I mentioned Comairs' future he looked at me like I strangled his wife. I knew then it was over.

I as well as other pilots went to Comair during a time of economic turmoil. Comair hired us, I worked as a CSA and we couldn't wait for the Comair to start growing again, as we would be transferred to flight ops. However Richard had something else in mind and carried it out, in the process throwing a huge wrench in thousands of peoples' lives, namely all of CVG.

You can try to argue that point but look at what he did to Endeavour (Pinnacle) trying to force a concessionary contract on them (poverty wages) at a time when Delta is making RECORD PROFITS. Did he not say that if Endeavour didn't accept the contract they would become the next Comair?

What about the Eagle Pilots? US Airways group is also making record profits but told Eagle if you don't take these concessions we will make you Comair 2. If management can use Remember Comair as a rallying cry to screw over a professional labor force then we as pilots can use it to remember a group of professionals that stood up to management tyranny and said no more!

Now about your Vendetta against Comair pilots - so an entire workforce had it out to screw over Delta mainline pilots so that is the reason he shut Comair down? All 2000+ pilots? SERIOUSLY????? Herc I am going to defer this to someone in the know or I am sure if you did a search of this thread, type in Comair MEC or management,
perhaps that may enlighten you. I personally have yet to meet one Comair pilot that had it out for you guys. But please, opposing views are always welcome here.

Lets' face it, Deltas' current CEO is a complete anal orifice who Eagles' manangement tried to copy and I watched with pleasure as it blew up in their face. This fight this phrase to REMEMBER COMAIR is not about Delta and Comair pilots ****ing match, its' about management trying to intimidate a work group into concessions or be shut down like Comair and that work group, any work group saying yes, we remember Comair and we're not taking it anymore just like they didn't!!
REMEMBER COMAIR!!

Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It (Official Video) - YouTube