Search

Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

PDT News and Rumors

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-18-2014 | 08:29 AM
  #4711  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by What
I am not making a big deal out of it, but since you insist.

PSA took concessions under the premise that they would get growth flying at the expense of Eagle as the airplanes they were awarded "were" supposed to have gone to Eagle if we would have accepted the B scale.

Eagle has said no twice , after the first time management went to PSA, they came back to Eagle and we said no again. One of the threats used against the Eagle pilots was that PDT could see airplanes, and management is on the record stating that they would like to refleet the wholly owned regionals. I understand that PSA signing this letter has mixed feelings, but my concern is not so much PDT not signing it, but rather the timing. So close to Eagle and others saying NO, while AAG seeks someone to fly their large RJs that are to replace routes currently flown by Eagle.

My concern is that as pilots, regional pilots but specifically AAG regional pilots... we are negotiating against our selves and management is trying to divide and ensure that there is no unity between the three pilot groups. When PSA negotiated their last deal they separated from the rest of the industry as they did their deal, I am wondering if the same thing is happening at PDT. This is the intent of management, and we are hurting each others careers and negotiating against our collective futures.
Just following the money will give you the bottom line on this and virtually any other issue in this industry as it relates to ALPA's mainline carriers and the regionals.

First and foremost, no ALPA contract is valid without the association president's signature. He will ultimately sign a contract at a regional that is in the best interest of the mainline carrier(s) it feeds. The less that feed costs, the lower the cost to the mainline carrier, and the more money that is left over for mainline pay. In our history, that's the reason why Airways Group had Piedmont acquire Allegheny. The Allegheny contract (arguably one of the best, if not the best in ALPA), cost more. With the exception of the Piedmont vacation language, it was far superior. Simple ALPA economics: The association president signed it because it benefitted the mainline carrier. That is and always has been the unspoken conflict that exists within our union.

People complain all the time about Mesa's bottom feeding contract, and PSA dropping their pants yet again. But you don't hear any complaints from ALPA's Executive Council. The president signs contracts that aid and abet our professions race to the bottom at the regional level.

The fact that BF didn't sign the solidarity letter means absolutely nothing.

If you look at ALPA from arms length and follow the money, you will see that institutionally the main line member carriers are the captains, and the regionals are the F/Os. Given the opportunity to influence F/O wages to their advantage, which way do you think they'll turn?

Follow the money.
Reply
Old 04-18-2014 | 08:36 PM
  #4712  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
From: Upright
Default PDT News and Rumors

How do you explain CCAir then?
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 03:30 AM
  #4713  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Default

That's an interesting question. I never really knew what ALPA's motivation was on that one.

I do know that the CCAir pilots tried to make their own deal with management outside of ALPA.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 04:12 AM
  #4714  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 0
From: Reclined
Default

The FFD meeting did not release the letter until the PDT MEC Chairman refused to sign it. That's what my sources say; he refused to sign. That's when it was sent out as is.
I'm also hearing that AAG may be in discussions with them soon, if they aren't already to send some 175's there.
AAG wants desperately to send planes elsewhere in an effort to say "we told you so" to the envoy pilots.
They may have a deal for 10 with an outside non AAG vendor in the works, which buys them time to get a deal with PDT and for PDT to spin up a training program. PDT has estimated 18 months for both a training and Maint program.
Eventually PDT will be folded into envoy. The CRJ's that went to PSA were never destined for envoy. The envoy pilots and their MEC have voted no THREE (3) times already against concessions. Each time under threat of losing flying and potentially their jobs. The rest of the FFD pilots need to follow the lead of envoy, XJT and RAH.
Potentially getting new planes (from envoy) is why PDT did not sign.
You PDT pilots need to get all over your MEC.

Last edited by Mason32; 04-19-2014 at 04:40 AM.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 05:18 AM
  #4715  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Mason32
The FFD meeting did not release the letter until the PDT MEC Chairman refused to sign it. That's what my sources say; he refused to sign. That's when it was sent out as is.
I'm also hearing that AAG may be in discussions with them soon, if they aren't already to send some 175's there.
AAG wants desperately to send planes elsewhere in an effort to say "we told you so" to the envoy pilots.
They may have a deal for 10 with an outside non AAG vendor in the works, which buys them time to get a deal with PDT and for PDT to spin up a training program. PDT has estimated 18 months for both a training and Maint program.
Eventually PDT will be folded into envoy. The CRJ's that went to PSA were never destined for envoy. The envoy pilots and their MEC have voted no THREE (3) times already against concessions. Each time under threat of losing flying and potentially their jobs. The rest of the FFD pilots need to follow the lead of envoy, XJT and RAH.
Potentially getting new planes (from envoy) is why PDT did not sign.
You PDT pilots need to get all over your MEC.
I heard that compass is in the works for 10 of those 175's.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 05:46 AM
  #4716  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
From: Just another RJ guy
Default

Originally Posted by wiz5422
I heard that compass is in the works for 10 of those 175's.
Trans States Holdings has said they are in the RFP bidding phase for that flying.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 08:21 AM
  #4717  
MrObvious's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Default

Pdt would definitely accept concessions for new planes for other reasons than psa. Very senior pilot group need 5 or 10 more years to retire, willing to take concessions so their not out on the street. Unlike psa pdt is in dire circumstances to survive, planes will cycle out in a few years and pdt is small enough to shut down over a no vote and noone would even notice. Psa was chasing shiny jets and upgrades but pdt needs a life raft to cling on to. However I doubt they'll ever see an offer.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 10:15 AM
  #4718  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 0
From: Reclined
Default

PDT can get raises all around, and still be cheaper than any other jet operator. It will be vital for them to not accept less than they're worth. I'd suggest that whomever has the best contract, (probably Air Wiskey), should be the starting point for discussions and improvements. It's obvious they can't place these things as easily as they claimed. You guys are no longer replaceable at will. Stand together, and you will win the day.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 10:53 AM
  #4719  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
Default

I don't see PDT voting down a contract that includes raises (even if lower than other jet operators) a flow similar to what was offered to Eagle (which I assume will be included) and new aircraft to refleet them. I could be wrong but it seems like quite a stretch for them to turn something like that down.
Reply
Old 04-19-2014 | 10:54 AM
  #4720  
cartean's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
Default

Originally Posted by MrObvious
pdt is small enough to shut down over a no vote and noone would even notice. Psa was chasing shiny jets and upgrades but pdt needs a life raft to cling on to. However I doubt they'll ever see an offer.
How big do you think PSA is?
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
aviator01
Horizon Air
47
06-24-2008 11:56 AM
triflyier
Cargo
28
05-02-2008 05:26 AM
tankerpuke
Cargo
2
09-23-2007 08:37 AM
Freighter Captain
Hiring News
3
05-16-2005 12:45 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices