Will you help out Mesa...National Seniority list?
12-18-2008, 02:08 PM
#13
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: On Top
Posts: 742
Said it before, and I'll say it again, the time for a national seniority list came and went many years ago. It's kind of funny that the ones that proposed this ridiculous idea at ALPA national were the United MEC. No thanks. I don't expect any hand outs at the expense of another airline's success. It is what it is, and as much as I support ALPA, if they ever try to push this through, I would be the first one leading the march to get them off property.
12-18-2008, 02:10 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Bluebus
Posts: 99
BWAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHA HA AHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Seriously,
they can start over just like they've done to many airlines they've put out of business. I could give a rat's backside if they apply and start at the bottem, but it'll be a cold day in He11 before I see one come in ahead of me after the crap they've pulled....now back to laughing....
BWAAAAA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
somebody pass me a tissue!!!!
HAHA HA AHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Seriously,
they can start over just like they've done to many airlines they've put out of business. I could give a rat's backside if they apply and start at the bottem, but it'll be a cold day in He11 before I see one come in ahead of me after the crap they've pulled....now back to laughing....
BWAAAAA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
somebody pass me a tissue!!!!
12-18-2008, 02:24 PM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by seafeye
Seriously, not a flame question...
If and when Mesa goes TU, will you honor a national seniority list if ALPA puts one out?
If your airline gets some of Mesa's airplanes after they go broke are you going to let Mesa pilots work those airplanes? Be intergrated on your seniority list? Or are we going to let those pilots start at the bottom again?
I ask because....
If and when Mesa goes TU, will you honor a national seniority list if ALPA puts one out?
If your airline gets some of Mesa's airplanes after they go broke are you going to let Mesa pilots work those airplanes? Be intergrated on your seniority list? Or are we going to let those pilots start at the bottom again?
I ask because....
Originally Posted by jth029
Should we do that for the Aloha guys that GO put out of business? I don't think thats how the game is played. Sorry, just my .02
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Sounds like a good idea, but starting with mesa is not...
After the scorched-earth campaign that OJ has waged across the industry in the last decade (eagerly enabled by 51% of MAG pilots) the idea of honoring their seniority post-liquidation is laughable.
The only way for this to work is if a punch of pilot groups agree IN ADVANCE OF CRISIS to do this...kind of like insurance. Nobody is going to let you buy into their flood insurance pool the day the river reaches the top of the levy.
Now is not the time to make such an agreement...some companies are obviously in worse shape than others.
BTW, ALPA would never have the guts to propose anything of this sort...it would be bound to offend some dues payers.
After the scorched-earth campaign that OJ has waged across the industry in the last decade (eagerly enabled by 51% of MAG pilots) the idea of honoring their seniority post-liquidation is laughable.
The only way for this to work is if a punch of pilot groups agree IN ADVANCE OF CRISIS to do this...kind of like insurance. Nobody is going to let you buy into their flood insurance pool the day the river reaches the top of the levy.
Now is not the time to make such an agreement...some companies are obviously in worse shape than others.
BTW, ALPA would never have the guts to propose anything of this sort...it would be bound to offend some dues payers.
Originally Posted by JetJock16
Sorry Mesa, go to the bottom but a NSL is a good idea that will never happen. There are just way to MANY issues that must be resolved and I feel they’ll never be able to get all three parties on the same page; Government, Employer and Pilot.
No offense but unless Mesa's purchased and merged, your fate should be no different than the rest of the unfortunate……….Braniff, ATA, Aloha, MaxJet, CAT, Skyway, Chicago Express, ACA, Big Sky, all furloughees and etc.
No offense but unless Mesa's purchased and merged, your fate should be no different than the rest of the unfortunate……….Braniff, ATA, Aloha, MaxJet, CAT, Skyway, Chicago Express, ACA, Big Sky, all furloughees and etc.
Again, maybe not doing this retroactively for those airlines that are not in existance but definately for anyone else that is around when this is implemented, including Mesa.
Originally Posted by chuck h
Why would I want that?
Originally Posted by Flyboy8784
The day we get a national seniority list is the day we all vote on national works rules and good equipment payscales. Then and only then will ALPA be able to run like a Union and not an Organization
Originally Posted by teamdothis
wont happen
Originally Posted by Bond
Said it before, and I'll say it again, the time for a national seniority list came and went many years ago. It's kind of funny that the ones that proposed this ridiculous idea at ALPA national were the United MEC. No thanks. I don't expect any hand outs at the expense of another airline's success. It is what it is, and as much as I support ALPA, if they ever try to push this through, I would be the first one leading the march to get them off property.
Last edited by Nevets; 12-18-2008 at 02:29 PM.
12-18-2008, 02:47 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EX - OHJFKCRJFO
Posts: 836
Originally Posted by Nevets
Sure, especially if my airline uses ex-Mesa aircraft.
There may be a point by not doing this retroactively. But certainly going forward it would be a great idea regardless of how some particular company is doing because there will always be a company that is not doing "good." And ALPA has actually proposed to do this on two different fronts. Its in the works right now as we speak. The Fee For Departure Work Group is working diligently towards this. Of course, not everyone is for it. I think that people just need to look at other unions and see how this type of idea really benefits their respective professions and then maybe they can see past the possible short term sacrifice and see the big picture.
With a labor friendly administration, there is an excellent opportunity to include this into contracts through section 6 negotiations. The government gives pilots leverage with a labor friendly NMB and therefore pilots can use that in their negotiations with management to have this in their contract. The real problem I think you alluded to is getting a consensus of pilots willing to strike over this idea because I think that is what its going to take.
Again, maybe not doing this retroactively for those airlines that are not in existance but definately for anyone else that is around when this is implemented, including Mesa.
End of whipsawing and downward pressure on wages and work rules from airline pilots competing agains each other.
Not necessarily. The Fee For Departure Work Group is working on a seniority migration mechanism that would leave separate contracts in place.
Never say wont happen.
Actually, the time is now! We have a friendly administration coming to office and most contracts coming up for negotiation at around the same time. The UAL MEC is just trying to push start the idea. But there is already another group of MECs that were working on this already. They include all ALPA MECs of the fee for departure carriers. This is not about hand outs. This is about ending whipsaw once and for all. Sure it will take the sacrifice of maybe seeing someone from another carrier come into your list above you but you have to look at the big picture of how much of a game changer this would be. We need to get out of the mentality of it always being all about me and think of how it would benefit our profession and in turn benefit you in the long run.
There may be a point by not doing this retroactively. But certainly going forward it would be a great idea regardless of how some particular company is doing because there will always be a company that is not doing "good." And ALPA has actually proposed to do this on two different fronts. Its in the works right now as we speak. The Fee For Departure Work Group is working diligently towards this. Of course, not everyone is for it. I think that people just need to look at other unions and see how this type of idea really benefits their respective professions and then maybe they can see past the possible short term sacrifice and see the big picture.
With a labor friendly administration, there is an excellent opportunity to include this into contracts through section 6 negotiations. The government gives pilots leverage with a labor friendly NMB and therefore pilots can use that in their negotiations with management to have this in their contract. The real problem I think you alluded to is getting a consensus of pilots willing to strike over this idea because I think that is what its going to take.
Again, maybe not doing this retroactively for those airlines that are not in existance but definately for anyone else that is around when this is implemented, including Mesa.
End of whipsawing and downward pressure on wages and work rules from airline pilots competing agains each other.
Not necessarily. The Fee For Departure Work Group is working on a seniority migration mechanism that would leave separate contracts in place.
Never say wont happen.
Actually, the time is now! We have a friendly administration coming to office and most contracts coming up for negotiation at around the same time. The UAL MEC is just trying to push start the idea. But there is already another group of MECs that were working on this already. They include all ALPA MECs of the fee for departure carriers. This is not about hand outs. This is about ending whipsaw once and for all. Sure it will take the sacrifice of maybe seeing someone from another carrier come into your list above you but you have to look at the big picture of how much of a game changer this would be. We need to get out of the mentality of it always being all about me and think of how it would benefit our profession and in turn benefit you in the long run.
Wrong.
You're going to reward them for being greedy by working for someone who is known as a dirtbag. Or being greedy and not doing their research on the company they will be working for?
You're going to punish me because I took the time to do a little research on who I would be tying my life to. You're going to put me back in my life plan because I didn't go with the quick upgrade but with a company who had a better reputation?
I understand what you're saying... and I have just as good as a reason to gripe; I am furloughed. But you don't hear me going around and whining about it. I made my decisions I will live with it.
Mesa pilots looking for a bailout. You'll get more sympathy from congress.
Retarded.
12-18-2008, 03:25 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: CL-65 F/O
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by SuperPilotJesse
So you're telling me the guys that got hired by Mesa for the "quick upgrade" should now be ahead of me at my airline?
Wrong.
You're going to reward them for being greedy by working for someone who is known as a dirtbag. Or being greedy and not doing their research on the company they will be working for?
You're going to punish me because I took the time to do a little research on who I would be tying my life to. You're going to put me back in my life plan because I didn't go with the quick upgrade but with a company who had a better reputation?
I understand what you're saying... and I have just as good as a reason to gripe; I am furloughed. But you don't hear me going around and whining about it. I made my decisions I will live with it.
Mesa pilots looking for a bailout. You'll get more sympathy from congress.
Retarded.
Wrong.
You're going to reward them for being greedy by working for someone who is known as a dirtbag. Or being greedy and not doing their research on the company they will be working for?
You're going to punish me because I took the time to do a little research on who I would be tying my life to. You're going to put me back in my life plan because I didn't go with the quick upgrade but with a company who had a better reputation?
I understand what you're saying... and I have just as good as a reason to gripe; I am furloughed. But you don't hear me going around and whining about it. I made my decisions I will live with it.
Mesa pilots looking for a bailout. You'll get more sympathy from congress.
Retarded.
I researched Mesa before I came to work here. I knew a lot of people that worked here, I liked them, I wanted to work with them. I thought it was an airline with a lot of potential and I saw a lot of room for improvement. I spent my first year being a good employee, and as soon as my year was up I jumped into things head first. Now I'm constantly working to improve things, whether it's helping a flight attendant clean a plane, backing up a pilot, or getting policies changed so it's easier and better for everyone to come to work. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, but it's happening.
I didn't want to take a job where I'd simply come to work. I wanted to come to work and make it something special to me, something I can have pride in. And I do. When my career at the regionals is over, I'll look back and feel that I've accomplished something. I'm glad I took my job at Mesa. Yes I get frustrated from time to time, but there is never a day that I regret it. I work with real, good people. Not people I find disruptive, arrogant and unkind - which is my experience of you and a few others on this board who seem to know nothing other than how to put others down.
12-18-2008, 03:35 PM
#20
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: On Top
Posts: 742
Nevets,
I've always respected your opinion, but you've left a very big detail out of the equation...poorly managed companies such as UA and MESA. See with a national seniority list you're punishing the pilots of the well ran and employee friendly companies. This is an issue that you cannot fix long term, there will always be awful management teams driving airlines into the ground....why punish everyone else on their account. It almost goes against capitalism. If UA goes out (not wishing so by any means) or if Mesa goes out then things run their course and we will back up those brothers and sisters with preferential interviews, and job fairs; but you're dillusional if you think that 1 list will be the end of whipsaw....How about alter-egos like gojets...a perfect example of a very immoral management team getting around a contract and an already existing seniority list by creating an alter ego with contract workers.
No, no, this is not a perfect system, but I'm not paying for Tilton's and J.O.'s mistakes, I'm sorry for the brothers and sisters at those companies, but such as life.
I've always respected your opinion, but you've left a very big detail out of the equation...poorly managed companies such as UA and MESA. See with a national seniority list you're punishing the pilots of the well ran and employee friendly companies. This is an issue that you cannot fix long term, there will always be awful management teams driving airlines into the ground....why punish everyone else on their account. It almost goes against capitalism. If UA goes out (not wishing so by any means) or if Mesa goes out then things run their course and we will back up those brothers and sisters with preferential interviews, and job fairs; but you're dillusional if you think that 1 list will be the end of whipsaw....How about alter-egos like gojets...a perfect example of a very immoral management team getting around a contract and an already existing seniority list by creating an alter ego with contract workers.
No, no, this is not a perfect system, but I'm not paying for Tilton's and J.O.'s mistakes, I'm sorry for the brothers and sisters at those companies, but such as life.
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