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Old 08-06-2009 | 04:42 PM
  #381  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
Hidious overcomplication continues.........

AMR needs to show NOTHING to you (I know that hurts). They spent millions defending this persuit and were awarded the ability to comlete it...............AGAIN, end of story. We're only taliking a measly 22 aircraft here which is not even close to enough to alter the big picture. That is why I'm repeatedly trying to point out your misguided emotionalism in making a mountain out of an anthill.

GET A GRIP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eagle needs more larger RJ's and if for some reason it can only get 22, then so be it. Versus continuing with more smaller ones, it's a no brainer. As I said before, if the APA and many AA pilots get their wish and strangle a major portion of AA's revenue source, they will lose too......and with thousands of pilot positions.

One thing is ABSOLUTELY certain.

AA pilots will NEVER fly RJ's in competition with other regional carriers, so the 2 options are that they either allow a reasonable and financially sustainable feed network to remain or wither on the vine along with Eagle.

Well, there is option 3 (a) and 3 (b).

3(a) involves an arbitration scenario, which as I said before has already shown its colors twice recently in painful ways to the APA.

3(B) involves a pre-pak BK should that option become more viable and then all bets are off and the E-190 is firmly (and profitably) in the game in large numbers. Sadly, the suicide rate among AA pilots (mostly F/O's) would likely skyrocket enough that massive hiring might actually take place.

Regardless of whther you think this issue is some big swindle on AMR's behalf to use a feeble 22 plane issue to sway ANYONE (be it "hopeful" Eagle pilots or angry AA pilots) it is not.

Your conspiracy theory of subterfuge and facade is baseless and of little interest to those who count. To certain gullible wild tongue wagging internet posters, it apparently is the next coming of the messiah.

What does ANY of that have to do with the question: Does the option contract still exist?

Not that it's related but since you keep raising the issue of them spending millions on this one issue...(which they didn't) The budget for AMR's legal Dept is about 31 million (in 2006 dollars). That is the labor costs of all their lawyers, related facilities costs, and their average budget for legal fees. It does not include awards, or any other costs.

Whatever it cost to assign "A" lawyer to one small arbitration is NOTHING compared to the gains they will get from having people actually think they are going to buy more CRJ's with contracts they in all likelyhood never had...
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Old 08-06-2009 | 04:46 PM
  #382  
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The arbitrator said that AMR had a requirement to tell the union about the secret deal to keep the options open, but then dismissed the violation as inconsequential.
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Old 08-06-2009 | 04:49 PM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by Wheels up
Got news. The APA isn't going to accept ANY more >50 seat jets of ANY kind as commuter exceptions. Period. If there's ANY issue that the membership is solid on, it's scope. Even the most diehard of company concessionists agree on that. And at the rate the company is stalling, it's going to be another couple of years before anything meaningful might happen on section 6. And there might just be a pretty creative solution that won't involve AE ALPA.

American, Continental, and Southwest are pilots are holding the line.
Delta ALPA sold-out to Anderson, but now finally realize that they were incredibly stupid to do so.
UAL ALPA just doesn't matter much anymore and likely will not matter at all by the end of the year.
USAPA matters even less.

--one of 10,000 Drunken scurvy dogs

That is great news, and I am glad APA has a secret plan up their sleeves to compete with the rest of the domestic regional carriers flying 70-76 seat jets for a fraction of F100 payscales. I am eager to see the APA proposal for this plan, and any details would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-06-2009 | 04:57 PM
  #384  
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Originally Posted by Flyby1206
That is great news, and I am glad APA has a secret plan up their sleeves to compete with the rest of the domestic regional carriers flying 70-76 seat jets for a fraction of F100 payscales. I am eager to see the APA proposal for this plan, and any details would be greatly appreciated.
All in good time. Besides even if AMR were to somehow get scope defeated, it probably wouldn't be Eagle flying the 76 seat 2 class jets. Eagle's pay rates are too expensive and their workforce too senior. I'd go to someone else so AMR didn't have to invest in buying new aircraft. It's not like service could get any worse than Eagle's is now.
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Old 08-06-2009 | 05:04 PM
  #385  
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Originally Posted by Wheels up
All in good time. Besides even if AMR were to somehow get scope defeated, it probably wouldn't be Eagle flying the 76 seat 2 class jets. Eagle's pay rates are too expensive and their workforce too senior. I'd go to someone else so AMR didn't have to invest in buying new aircraft.
True, question is do they want Republic (now a direct competitor) to be providing the lion's share of regional feed for AA? The only other E170 operator is Compass, wholly owned by Delta, so they arent an option. I wonder how expensive it would be to pay a 3rd party regional carrier to set up a training program for E170s, get FAA approval for their certificate, and all the other associated operating costs. Also, I wonder what other regional carriers have enough cash to invest in a fleet of 50-100+ E170s?

It is looking like it would make much more sense for AMR to buy the planes and operate them. I'm curious to see APA's plan to operate them to compete with Republic and Compass.

Eagle does pretty much have the worst service of all regional carriers. I am surprised we still provide any feed for AA at all. When AA contracted TSA they provided a MUCH better product, and excellent mtx on the AMR owned a/c as well.
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Old 08-07-2009 | 04:12 AM
  #386  
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Originally Posted by Mason32
What does ANY of that have to do with the question: Does the option contract still exist?

Not that it's related but since you keep raising the issue of them spending millions on this one issue...(which they didn't) The budget for AMR's legal Dept is about 31 million (in 2006 dollars). That is the labor costs of all their lawyers, related facilities costs, and their average budget for legal fees. It does not include awards, or any other costs.

Whatever it cost to assign "A" lawyer to one small arbitration is NOTHING compared to the gains they will get from having people actually think they are going to buy more CRJ's with contracts they in all likelyhood never had...
What do your comments have to do with the fact that Eagle can acquire 22 more CRJ-700's if they so desire ?

That's what the initial issue was and it stands..........again, the rest of this pointless squabble is academic. Eagle has the ability to acquire those aircraft and that's all there is to it.

End of story.

Obviously you believe it is all a hoax, so I see no point in discussing it further......................sleep well.
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Old 08-07-2009 | 04:30 AM
  #387  
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ANYWAYS.

Any other news at Eagle? That's what this thread is for..
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Old 08-07-2009 | 04:31 AM
  #388  
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Originally Posted by Wheels up
All in good time. Besides even if AMR were to somehow get scope defeated, it probably wouldn't be Eagle flying the 76 seat 2 class jets. Eagle's pay rates are too expensive and their workforce too senior. I'd go to someone else so AMR didn't have to invest in buying new aircraft. It's not like service could get any worse than Eagle's is now.
Eagle's seniority is becoming less of an issue avery month. In 5 years, when this operational model is becoming more active, most of the other regionals will have a similar senioirty work force due to lack of hiring at the majors (which will be stagnant or even shrinking as this class of aircraft evolves at the regionals). Additionally, because these are regionals, the difference in pay rates are usually less then $10.00/hour and operational synergies can overcome most of that. There WILL be another feeder eating off Eagle's plate, but Eagle has much value and it's already entrenched. The sale attempts of the past were only held up by AMR's desire for control and the suitors who showed up balked at the demands AMR made.

It's interesting to note, you claim Eagle is at a disadvantage and highlight the pay issue, but when the same issue is applied to AA pilots who are asking for 50% raises (among other draconian demands), it all of a sudden is something AMR can easily (and apparently willingly) tolerate.

Me thinks you're seeing through rose colored glasses to maintain and rationalize your belief on the way things should be. You've long been an Eagle hater, so this is predictable. "All in good time" is laughable considering the APA cannot even tell the many members asking what "AA pilots do all flying" actually MEANS.

The fact is, the APA is currently rudderless on scope and has no financially viable plan to offer. Actually, they've strategically blundered (again) in my opinion by creating a philosophy that cannot be defined, thus leading many of their more gullible and emotional members (usually younger and more junior) to hold them to a goal that will almost certainly fail. This in turn will only weaken their leadership base and create more division within the ranks (already there) thus fragmenting their offensive and ultimate success.

As it stands now, AMR is batting the APA around like a kitten playing with a toy and the NMB fully approves. "All in good time" is actually AMR's position, not the APA's. The APA's ACTUAL position is, "What the heck do we do now ?", which isn't the worrisome part. The bad part is that the answer is, "Well, lets wait and see what AMR plans to do".

BTW, compared to the other majors, AA isn't distinguishing itself in the service department...........Eagle is only following the lead of its major.

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Old 08-07-2009 | 04:38 AM
  #389  
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Originally Posted by Flyby1206
I'm curious to see APA's plan to operate them to compete with Republic and Compass.
There is no plan. The APA's scope EFIS panel is currently blank and they forgot to order the little back-up wind turbine. If you drive by their headquarters and roll down your window, you can here "BANK ANGLE, BANK ANGLE" coming from their window.

As usual of course, it's Eagle and its pilots fault.

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Old 08-07-2009 | 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Randolph
ANYWAYS.

Any other news at Eagle?
Not much. A lull in the action and staus quo for the remainder of the year.
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