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Old 06-21-2009, 06:54 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH
Some highlights:

(At 45 minutes) "In Oregon.... a barber who colors hair needs 1700 hours of training...... but the FAA only requires 250 hours to be a FO"

(1:16) In theory, we have one level of safety between the regionals and the majors, in in reality it does not exist

(1:55-2:00) FAA Codesharing does not take safety records into account,
Not implementing NTSB recomendations for stall and upset training.
FLight into freezing rain and severe icing.
Asked of the head of the FAA, "Would you fly on a regional airline if you knew the pilots were not trained to recover from a full stall?" "Not only would I not fly on it, I would ground it"

(3:30) CA Prater's Q&A

(3:45) asked of CA Prater (paraphrasing) Do airlines penalize pilots for calling in fatigues? "Yes.... I will name names"
That Mr. DeFazio laid it out perfectly. I hope this is the start of something good.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:43 PM
  #112  
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"Pilots are probably the most tested people in the world"

Randy Babbitt from the hearings.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:20 PM
  #113  
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Amazing. I sat down and watched the whole thing, and I have to say, one of my favorite moments was at 1:25, at the start of Mr. Oberstar's remarks of the power that Babbitt now holds. Incredible, I actually got goosebumps.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:55 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Ok, say you got 2 guys . . .

Both have experience, do you think that ones experience might be different than the other?
Yes. No 2 pilots have the same experience or background. Military single seat fighter pilots don't have that much actual instrument either. Not everyone can write your manuals, have taught the aircraft, and have 20K hours and a type in the aircraft you operate when their hired. No candidate is perfect, but a minimum standard must be set. Since the FAA calls it an ATP, why shouldn't ATP's possess an "ATP" as a minimum?

Here, it's not the possession of an ATP that increases safety. . . .
Here, requiring pilots to have an ATP helps a proper balance of increasing safety.

Which is it?
It's both. To get an ATP requires you have a certain amount of flight time, flight experience, general aviation knowledge, and life experience (you have to be 23). Both life experience and flying experience help ensure that, as an ATP pilot, you are generally going to be a safer pilot than a non-ATP pilot, b/c you met a certain standard, which is a higher standard than the minimum, but still enough to not make the barriers to entry into the profession prohibitive. Both Colgan pilots had the minimums for an ATP, but only 1 had one. Would it have made a difference if the FO had an ATP too? Probably not, but the ATP isn't a 'cure all', its an enhancement to safety. The only way to have a 100% safety record is to stop flying.

I feel like my point is clear. Feel free to have the last word.

--

Great house hearing. Especially the talk about stall training from the Congressman who's also an active guard pilot. Actual stall recovery training is needed, not just 'first indication'.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:16 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by sinsilvia666
in surgery only one person can die at once, in piloting 400 or more can die at once !

In surgery there is no one else to blame....

We get to blame everybody... mechanics, poor AC design, FAA ATC delays, missing bagage, poor gate/ticket agents, slow TSA made you miss your flight....
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:43 PM
  #116  
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Hmmm I wonder when the Airlines will accept the invitations for the next hearing. My bet is no airline is going to sit down to the firing squad unless they are ordered to.
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Old 06-22-2009, 04:03 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Both Colgan pilots had the minimums for an ATP, but only 1 had one. Would it have made a difference if the FO had an ATP too?
I am going to point out again that while the Captain had an ATP, he still started at the airlines with around 400 hours. The real question is whether it would have made a difference if the Captain had an ATP before entering the airlines???
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:47 AM
  #118  
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Thumbs down Is Congressman DeFazio for real?


(At 45 minutes) "In Oregon.... a barber who colors hair needs 1700 hours of training...... but the FAA only requires 250 hours to be a FO"
I think Congressman DeFazio fails to realize that barbers and nail technicians don't have to pay for every hour they stand in a salon or barbershop. If a pilot builds time in a 172 (worst case scenario, used for this example only) at a rate of $125 (this may vary on location and institute) an hour it would take at least $70K to build the 600 hrs and $212K to build the 1700 hrs. If this were the case I would have had to consider a different career path. This guy has no idea!
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:02 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by flyboyshell
I think Congressman DeFazio fails to realize that barbers and nail technicians don't have to pay for every hour they stand in a salon or barbershop. If a pilot builds time in a 172 (worst case scenario, used for this example only) at a rate of $125 (this may vary on location and institute) an hour it would take at least $70K to build the 600 hrs and $212K to build the 1700 hrs. If this were the case I would have had to consider a different career path. This guy has no idea!
I personally think he has exactly right. The point is that the GOVERNMENT regulates and requires more experience from barbers than airline pilots. He hit the nail on the head. Airline pilots should be at the top of the industry. We (collectively) are flying millions and millions of people a year, not boxes or a few execs, but a large portion of the general public. As such wouldn't it make sense that the absolute best, most experienced pilots in the industry work here? Wouldn't we have a better safety standard (and work environment) if being a regional / major pilot was the culmination of your career and NOT a stepping stone?
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:14 PM
  #120  
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I can't find the thread on that Cohen creep, so I'll put thiso here. He has no clue what he is talking about when he compares the pay and responsibilty of a regional fo with a medical assistant. Ok our pay is similar to a medical assistant but not our responsibilty. A medical assistant takes blood pressure and weighs a patient, changes bed clothes, and wipes butts. They answer to a nurse who answers to a nurse practitioner or physicians assistant and then to -a doctor. No where closes to us! A physicians assistant is like a doctor; does evals, writes perscriptions, does everything a dr does but has to have a doctor sign it off at the end of the day. Sound familiar? The only difference....they start out at $60k a year and average 80 to 100. And if they specialize they could be upwards of $120 a year.
So yes cohen's an idiot.
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