Proposed ATP/1500 Minimums for 121 Carriers
07-29-2009 | 06:43 AM
#41
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From: Tiki bar
07-29-2009 | 06:52 AM
#43
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From: Guppy Commander
i disagree completely....pay is a mute point when it comes to pilot shortages. every flight school out there is gonna talk up the pay to every uninformed joe schmo who thinks it would be cool to fly an airplane for a living. i saw it every day as a flight instructor...the students would laugh and think i was joking when i told them they would basically live in poverty their first five years at an airline. they are being lied to by the people selling the schools and that will never stop. just like any other profession out there, there will always be the uninformed people that will do this without looking at the facts first.
with a raising of the minimums all you are going to see is a temporary shortage followed by a boom of people with the time. don't get me wrong, i am a low time guy and have no problem with raising the minimums. 1500 hours is more than reasonable to ask of someone to fly a bus around with people's lives in your hands. i do agree that pay needs to go up, i just think there will never be a TRUE shortage of pilots.
(sorry if i offended anyone named joe schmo out there)
with a raising of the minimums all you are going to see is a temporary shortage followed by a boom of people with the time. don't get me wrong, i am a low time guy and have no problem with raising the minimums. 1500 hours is more than reasonable to ask of someone to fly a bus around with people's lives in your hands. i do agree that pay needs to go up, i just think there will never be a TRUE shortage of pilots.
(sorry if i offended anyone named joe schmo out there)
I dont disagree that there would be a shortage of fresh newbs out of the flight schools but that doesnt mean that there is a shortage of qualified plilots. There are ALOT of furloughed pilots and alot of highly qualified pilots throughout the country currently, they are just doing other types of lying and the regionals have crap pay, schedules and long upgrades now so those jobs arent sought after by anyone other than freshly minted commercial pilots or second career guys looking to jump into the industry. Also it wouldnt be a bad thing to have more qualified pilots flying for 121 airlines would it?
I do think we will see a shortage of pilots in a few years unless the pay and working conditions are brought back up to attract people to this industry. At DAL we will lose 300+ pilots a year for the next 20 years once the age 65 rule has taken full efect, heck we have 800+ pilots a year for almost 5 years in a row coming up.
Last edited by Superpilot92; 07-29-2009 at 07:04 AM.
07-29-2009 | 06:56 AM
#44
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Putting an ax to furloughed guys that don't meet the requirements? I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that statement.
Furloughing them in the first place is an attempt to right size the company. Further giving them an ax? Not sure what that would accomplish. If anything grandfathering them in would help offset the pain management will see with finding qualified pilots in 2012 during the hiring boom.
Furloughing them in the first place is an attempt to right size the company. Further giving them an ax? Not sure what that would accomplish. If anything grandfathering them in would help offset the pain management will see with finding qualified pilots in 2012 during the hiring boom.
There will not be any shortage in 2012. If the industry has recovered by then, or is even on the way to recovery people will jump back in. There are thousands of pilots on the street furloughed right now and thousands more that have left the industry. They haven't died off and they are still out there lurking.
07-29-2009 | 07:01 AM
#45
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I think its a good idea to raise minimums, but up until recently didn't most airlines hire with close to ATP mins? I think an artificial minimum in this case may not help as much as people would think. 1500 TT in a C-172 does not raise the bar to much, after all you can get a single engine ATP. The airlines could just convert that to ME ATP.
I have a hard time believing there is much difference in skill/experience between a 900 hour and 1500 pilot who has only flown 172's. Shouldn't it be quality not quantity.
I have a hard time believing there is much difference in skill/experience between a 900 hour and 1500 pilot who has only flown 172's. Shouldn't it be quality not quantity.
Now we can get into which of these experiences are most valuable, but the point is that the guy that got hired right out of flight school has never had to make a decision. He's always been operating under the umbrella of his instructors CFI. Then when he gets to the airlines he'll be operating under his captains ATP. The guy with 1500 hrs has, at some point in his short, professional career, made decisions that affected his passengers, cargo, students, airplanes, and his own life. He may not be ready to captain an airliner, but he's much more prepared to be a competent FO, and he has experience that he can recall when he upgrades.
07-29-2009 | 07:06 AM
#46
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From: none ya...
Hopefully they will at least have some kind of grandfather clause in there..time will tell
07-29-2009 | 07:13 AM
#49
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I don't think this will cause a shortage of pilots, but what it will cause is the 121 candidates to be more experienced and more dedicated. 2 years ago any flight school could tell a student that they would be airline pilots in as little as X months. Any person with the money who likes airplanes could become an airline pilot.
I think 1500 hrs is a higher barrier than most might think. Those who graduated in '02-'04, remember how many of your classmates went into different fields instead of putting in the time grinding as a CFI? When you actually have to work to become an airline pilot, I believe the candidates will be more dedicated and experienced.
I think 1500 hrs is a higher barrier than most might think. Those who graduated in '02-'04, remember how many of your classmates went into different fields instead of putting in the time grinding as a CFI? When you actually have to work to become an airline pilot, I believe the candidates will be more dedicated and experienced.
07-29-2009 | 07:14 AM
#50
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From: 737 Capt
Hence what happens when lawmakers become reactionary. How many of us are sitting on furlough lists within the neighborhood of 1000hrs. Now lets see dont meet the IFR mins for 135, or for the ATP, lets give em the ax and clean up that furlough list...and there are plenty of us 1000hr wonders who have never failed a test or check, done well on line checks,ect. I had someone ask me how someone could have only 1000hrs when they were with an airline for a year. Its easy junior guys sitting reserve, only flew 400hrs that year... The ATP min sounds like a good idea, and it may be, so instead well what about taking the existing guys and making them meet ATP standards on all PC's. Oh wait we already do that...see my point? Hopefully they will at least have some kind of grandfather clause in there..time will tell
Hopefully they will at least have some kind of grandfather clause in there..time will tell
