Eagle Life
03-30-2012 | 07:14 AM
#5771
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Delta woudn't care and I highly doubt Hulas cares about rocking the boat if he could make money. the economic sense in outsourcing is the whipsaw against one another, not necessarily being cheaper right off the bat, but ensuring it stays cheap in the future.
Unfortunately I saw the same thing happen at Comair. We took the paycuts, got a 76 seat rate, and then saw most of the 76 sweaters go to other carriers while we parked 50 seaters. The furloughed FO's will just go to where the flying is at the other carriers. I hope it turns out different for Eagle, I just don't see it though.
Unfortunately I saw the same thing happen at Comair. We took the paycuts, got a 76 seat rate, and then saw most of the 76 sweaters go to other carriers while we parked 50 seaters. The furloughed FO's will just go to where the flying is at the other carriers. I hope it turns out different for Eagle, I just don't see it though.
First, Delta already had ASA doing much of their flying. Prior to their bankruptcy Delta had already made plans to shift much of Comair's routes to ASA.
AMR has no ASA.
Second, the Comair pilot group burned some major bridges with their strike. Their hearts were in the right place, but the timing and how Comair management went about it was very wrong. Delta didn't forgive or forget.
No such bad blood exists between Eagle and AMR. No strikes by our pilot group shutting down operations.
Third, Comair (not the pilots) had a history of incompetence the likes of which had rarely been seen before. Remember the Christmas fiasco? How many thousands of flights were canceled over that week?
Then to add insult to injury their crew scheduling system goes beserk forcing more cancelations.
Eagle had the dynamic manning experiment go wrong this past year, but that was small potatoes compared to the things Comair pullled. Plus the dynamic manning was AMR's idea and was only a test.
When push came to shove Delta was running from Comair. They had ASA and Chatauqua picking up most of their flying and, most imprtantly, doing that flying more efficiently. This is not a reflection on the Comair pilot group who were doing a superior job with what they had to work with.
Comair's story is unique and involves many variables and factors. We can't always scream COMAIR! Everytime a company enters bankruptcy or goes into negotiation with a regional partner.
None of this is to say that AMR isn't capable of anything. I'm just saying we can't use what happend to Comair as a basis for what may or may not happen to Eagle.
03-30-2012 | 07:16 AM
#5772
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Previously I put up a post to highlight my opinion that when one considers that methodology, the rates within it, expected inflation and health care increases, it would mean that a future senior, topped-out E175 captain at Eagle would be flying in 2019 for what would be approximately equevilent to about $55,000/year in 2012 earning dollars. Right now, senior, topped out E145 captains are pulling in $100K or more for 25 less seats.
You starting to see the picture here ?
Rock-bottom pilot costs, but they still need some form of whipsaw scenario going forward. It's not just strikes BTW, but coverage for staffing problems, inability to attract pilots or other problems. Still got to avoid having ALL your eggs in one basket even WITH peanuts compensation.
Many of those senior won't come to AA @ $40/hour, commuting to NYC at their ages, so they'll live with the situation or go elsewhere. Some will come over to AA............BUT, AA isn't likely to grow to support any flowthrough anyways as these larger RJ's with these wages will be taking on much of mainlines future flying, so it's likely to be a trickle. If AA merges with U either before C11 exit (Parkers desire) or after (Horton's willingness), then all bets are off and the combined entity has 10 regionals 600 airplanes and 6000 pilots, which is too much. The 2 mainlines might have too many aircraft/pilots too.
What a mess, eh ?
03-30-2012 | 07:23 AM
#5773
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
We need to demystify the whole Comair thing once and for all. Not every airline is destined for a "comair" style ending. We can't always play that card.
First, Delta already had ASA doing much of their flying. Prior to their bankruptcy Delta had already made plans to shift much of Comair's routes to ASA.
AMR has no ASA.
Second, the Comair pilot group burned some major bridges with their strike. Their hearts were in the right place, but the timing and how Comair management went about it was very wrong. Delta didn't forgive or forget.
No such bad blood exists between Eagle and AMR. No strikes by our pilot group shutting down operations.
Third, Comair (not the pilots) had a history of incompetence the likes of which had rarely been seen before. Remember the Christmas fiasco? How many thousands of flights were canceled over that week?
Then to add insult to injury their crew scheduling system goes beserk forcing more cancelations.
Eagle had the dynamic manning experiment go wrong this past year, but that was small potatoes compared to the things Comair pullled. Plus the dynamic manning was AMR's idea and was only a test.
When push came to shove Delta was running from Comair. They had ASA and Chatauqua picking up most of their flying and, most imprtantly, doing that flying more efficiently. This is not a reflection on the Comair pilot group who were doing a superior job with what they had to work with.
Comair's story is unique and involves many variables and factors. We can't always scream COMAIR! Everytime a company enters bankruptcy or goes into negotiation with a regional partner.
None of this is to say that AMR isn't capable of anything. I'm just saying we can't use what happend to Comair as a basis for what may or may not happen to Eagle.
First, Delta already had ASA doing much of their flying. Prior to their bankruptcy Delta had already made plans to shift much of Comair's routes to ASA.
AMR has no ASA.
Second, the Comair pilot group burned some major bridges with their strike. Their hearts were in the right place, but the timing and how Comair management went about it was very wrong. Delta didn't forgive or forget.
No such bad blood exists between Eagle and AMR. No strikes by our pilot group shutting down operations.
Third, Comair (not the pilots) had a history of incompetence the likes of which had rarely been seen before. Remember the Christmas fiasco? How many thousands of flights were canceled over that week?
Then to add insult to injury their crew scheduling system goes beserk forcing more cancelations.
Eagle had the dynamic manning experiment go wrong this past year, but that was small potatoes compared to the things Comair pullled. Plus the dynamic manning was AMR's idea and was only a test.
When push came to shove Delta was running from Comair. They had ASA and Chatauqua picking up most of their flying and, most imprtantly, doing that flying more efficiently. This is not a reflection on the Comair pilot group who were doing a superior job with what they had to work with.
Comair's story is unique and involves many variables and factors. We can't always scream COMAIR! Everytime a company enters bankruptcy or goes into negotiation with a regional partner.
None of this is to say that AMR isn't capable of anything. I'm just saying we can't use what happend to Comair as a basis for what may or may not happen to Eagle.
03-30-2012 | 07:51 AM
#5774
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Because that way you will finally be able to call yourself an Eagle pilot like you always wanted, right?
Keep hoping. It's AMR's pie, not Eagle's. And the boys at centerpoint won't negotiate with any subcontractor as long as they have 3,000+ pilots on property who are forced to accept whatever contract the judge signs off on.
Keep hoping. It's AMR's pie, not Eagle's. And the boys at centerpoint won't negotiate with any subcontractor as long as they have 3,000+ pilots on property who are forced to accept whatever contract the judge signs off on.
Don't think it won't happen. It happened to Comair, ExpressJet, & ASA just to name a few.
03-30-2012 | 07:57 AM
#5775
Underpaid...
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,101
Likes: 0
From: French-Canadian
I don't see any language that "makes" people flow though. What I do see is a pay control methodology that ensures those who don't, will for the next 8 years fly those 76-seaters for the same rates as the cheapest out there. Actually, at that point, you go into section 6 and you can add anohter 5 years to that.
Previously I put up a post to highlight my opinion that when one considers that methodology, the rates within it, expected inflation and health care increases, it would mean that a future senior, topped-out E175 captain at Eagle would be flying in 2019 for what would be approximately equevilent to about $55,000/year in 2012 earning dollars. Right now, senior, topped out E145 captains are pulling in $100K or more for 25 less seats.
You starting to see the picture here ?
Rock-bottom pilot costs, but they still need some form of whipsaw scenario going forward. It's not just strikes BTW, but coverage for staffing problems, inability to attract pilots or other problems. Still got to avoid having ALL your eggs in one basket even WITH peanuts compensation.
Many of those senior won't come to AA @ $40/hour, commuting to NYC at their ages, so they'll live with the situation or go elsewhere. Some will come over to AA............BUT, AA isn't likely to grow to support any flowthrough anyways as these larger RJ's with these wages will be taking on much of mainlines future flying, so it's likely to be a trickle. If AA merges with U either before C11 exit (Parkers desire) or after (Horton's willingness), then all bets are off and the combined entity has 10 regionals 600 airplanes and 6000 pilots, which is too much. The 2 mainlines might have too many aircraft/pilots too.
What a mess, eh ?
Previously I put up a post to highlight my opinion that when one considers that methodology, the rates within it, expected inflation and health care increases, it would mean that a future senior, topped-out E175 captain at Eagle would be flying in 2019 for what would be approximately equevilent to about $55,000/year in 2012 earning dollars. Right now, senior, topped out E145 captains are pulling in $100K or more for 25 less seats.
You starting to see the picture here ?
Rock-bottom pilot costs, but they still need some form of whipsaw scenario going forward. It's not just strikes BTW, but coverage for staffing problems, inability to attract pilots or other problems. Still got to avoid having ALL your eggs in one basket even WITH peanuts compensation.
Many of those senior won't come to AA @ $40/hour, commuting to NYC at their ages, so they'll live with the situation or go elsewhere. Some will come over to AA............BUT, AA isn't likely to grow to support any flowthrough anyways as these larger RJ's with these wages will be taking on much of mainlines future flying, so it's likely to be a trickle. If AA merges with U either before C11 exit (Parkers desire) or after (Horton's willingness), then all bets are off and the combined entity has 10 regionals 600 airplanes and 6000 pilots, which is too much. The 2 mainlines might have too many aircraft/pilots too.
What a mess, eh ?
03-30-2012 | 09:35 AM
#5776
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Likes: 0
well they have been putting rfp's out for over 3 years. why have they not added the additional feeders yet?
For that matter, AA has had the capability via the current APA scope to have as many feeders it wants for the last 20 years, so why have they not?
For that matter, AA has had the capability via the current APA scope to have as many feeders it wants for the last 20 years, so why have they not?
03-30-2012 | 09:43 AM
#5777
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
I'd be more then surprised if there were any new-hire classes to put them in for quite a while. I'm still hearing that up to 400 furloughs are likely once PBS kicks in and then one day many moons from now, they'll have to comb back through the furlough list (again) before tapping anyone at Eagle.
03-30-2012 | 09:49 AM
#5778
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Sounds like Horton wants to merge wit U, just after reorganization and if he can keep the majority of the EMB's for short-term and work out a purchase/exchage for E175's and such, perhaps AFTER a merger, they can go about plucking the combined regional side of AA and U for who will be awarded the contracts (with the combined entity owning the aircraft though). They should have more pilots then they need and can draw down carriers and routes over a relatively short time frame.
Just my opinion on that, anyway...........
03-30-2012 | 09:55 AM
#5779
Underpaid...
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,101
Likes: 0
From: French-Canadian
Prior to BK, I think the goal was to sell Eagle as part of a package, but I've heard the terms were less then palatable to those who did kick the tires there. Now AMR is in the transition of BK and it's a whole different ballgame where the terms may be better, but financing the aircraft will be an issue (at least while still in BK).
Sounds like Horton wants to merge wit U, just after reorganization and if he can keep the majority of the EMB's for short-term and work out a purchase/exchage for E175's and such, perhaps AFTER a merger, they can go about plucking the combined regional side of AA and U for who will be awarded the contracts (with the combined entity owning the aircraft though). They should have more pilots then they need and can draw down carriers and routes over a relatively short time frame.
Just my opinion on that, anyway...........
Sounds like Horton wants to merge wit U, just after reorganization and if he can keep the majority of the EMB's for short-term and work out a purchase/exchage for E175's and such, perhaps AFTER a merger, they can go about plucking the combined regional side of AA and U for who will be awarded the contracts (with the combined entity owning the aircraft though). They should have more pilots then they need and can draw down carriers and routes over a relatively short time frame.
Just my opinion on that, anyway...........
03-30-2012 | 10:03 AM
#5780
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
AMR loses $619 million in February - MarketWatch
AMR loses $619 million in February - MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- AMR Corp. AAMRQ +2.01% reported a loss of $619 million, or $1.85 a share, for the month of February on operating revenue of $1.81 billion, according to a filing with regulators on Friday. The airline, wihch filed for bankruptcy on Nov. 29, disclosed $24.4 billion in total assets including $40 million in cash, $4.2 billion in restricted cash and short-term investments, and $10.9 billion in flight equipment. The company's accumulated deficit totaled $8.44 billion as of Feb. 29.
...............
That 4.2 billion is about to be under 3 billion, this is the 3rd month they have posted a huge loss.
AMR loses $619 million in February - MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- AMR Corp. AAMRQ +2.01% reported a loss of $619 million, or $1.85 a share, for the month of February on operating revenue of $1.81 billion, according to a filing with regulators on Friday. The airline, wihch filed for bankruptcy on Nov. 29, disclosed $24.4 billion in total assets including $40 million in cash, $4.2 billion in restricted cash and short-term investments, and $10.9 billion in flight equipment. The company's accumulated deficit totaled $8.44 billion as of Feb. 29.
...............
That 4.2 billion is about to be under 3 billion, this is the 3rd month they have posted a huge loss.
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