To me the way the industry discriminates against very experienced part 91 or part 135 pilots is just plain ridiculous, I have a good friend that is currently flying a GV, he was between jobs about a year ago and although he has over 12,000 hours with over 6,000 jet PIC (GIV, GV, Falcon 2000, Hawker) has 500 hours as an F/O on the B-762 and flies an A/C that is not that far off in weight from a 737, A320 literally all over the world, I couldn't even get him an interview because of the part of the regs under which he flies, but a guy flying F/O on a 737 domestically with little PIC and little international experience qualifies because of the part of the regs under which he flies. Sorry for the rant but I'm I the only one who thinks that is just plain stupid? Out of my going on three decades in aviation about half of it was flying corporate and I flew with folks back in those days that I wouldn't hesitate for one second to put my family in the back of their plane as DEC's on a heavy jet on their very first flight out of OJT.

 

Since I seemed to have started a flame war here on this thread, let me explain two things.

1) I know of way too many dudes who jumped on the bandwagon and got in the door who were the 500 hr wonders that are furloughed. Most of those dudes could not get a gig because they BURNED BRIDGES or they just could care less to instruct because it was below them. They are not doing anything to further their careers as pilots and belong on the street.

I hear it way too much on here that people are just casually collecting a check from the unemployment office, and sound like they could care less about finding any flying gig. My hats off to those who are in the trenches doing the right things they need to do (jump pilots, instructors, box haulers) to get their time in.

2) Don't assume that everyone on here who is a CFI is some young buck with acne who doesn't know how the industry works. I may not have RJ training, but I do have other training in my hip pocket that would help a great deal with RJ school. I know the difference between a 172 and a Jet, but thanks for your sarcasm. I am not going to sit here and discus my resume, because that would just not be polite. But I don't need any of you people to do a damn thing to walk in my resume, but thanks for the thought. And hell yeah I can fly the XXXX out of a 172...can you? Everyone on here needs to loosen up the belt just a little bit, myself included. This industry sucks, and if you don't have a back up plan, well then you are just in quicksand.

 

this is a terrific statement

 

It's not exactly discrimination...

There is some difference in handling between an RJ and a heavy...but even a G-V is waaaay closer to the RJ end of the spectrum as far as that goes. Just because it's a "heavy" in the 91 world doesn't really relate. A CRJ-900 or an E-190 are both comparable to a G-V.

International experience is good...but most domestic airlines do not really place a premium on that as far as I can tell (UPS does, but they like heavy time too).

What the airlines really like are two things...

- Somebody who is familiar with 121 operations. They tend to be more comfortable with an entry level pilot who is used to multiple legs with short layovers in Duluth as opposed to a guy who does one long leg and then spends four days living the expense account life at a premium resort. Same reason that 91/135 operators tend to be leery of airline pilots. But really...how long was your buddy going to sit reserve in LGA once the economy picked up and the 91 "heavy" operators start calling? Yeah, that's what I thought We all know what the G-V background is worth, and it's more than domestic narrowbody reserve.

- Internal recs. Since a lot of major pilots come from regionals, they bring their buddies along behind them. There are even some majors which used to prefer pilots from a certain military branch...no logic there, just cultural.

 

No, we want to help, please tell us your name so that we can tell our airlines what a valuable addition you would be since you can fly the XXXX out of a 172.

 

Oh really? why don't you tell me in all your wisdom that evidently surpasses mine, what is the difference? remember that you are discussing this in a forum with other pilots and not in a bar with a dumb blond! You fly your airplane from your seat forward and that is the simple truth, at its essence flying a high performance jet is the same (inertia from a higher mass and the aerodynamic difference between wing mounted engines vs. fuselage mounted engines taken into consideration) regardless of weight. The whole "light vs. heavy" is just a mental masturbation that we have engaged in because we just want to be "special" but at the end of the day we can't lie to ourselves, or other pilots for that matter.

This just told me that you have no experience in the corporate world. If anything part 121 is a LOT easier than part 91 or 135 flying, you have a team of people that are dedicated to do all the additional stuff besides flying the airplane, part 121 flying is easy compared to part 91 or 135. Like I said, 15 years flying corporate and 15 years flying in the airlines have given me the experience to talk with authority about the matter.

You are thinking the US market where the airline industry is so degraded that part 91 jobs are paying more, that is not the case in other parts of the world where my friend was applying.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree

 

Chuck Yeager period dot

I probably have buddies at your airline, so let me know your name so I can have them tell you. Listen, I'm not here to make friends because I have them already. But if you are going to try and make subtle attacks on dudes for having a strong and unpopular opinion on things, that shows character. I understand that a lot of dudes on here have bro's that are on the street, and I have compassion for anyone who loses a job without it being their doing. But I do not have compassion for dudes who collect a check and sit on the couch with no desire to get back down in the trenches and do some stalls and falls. That would require two things, 1) Determination and 2) Luck to find a school that will take them knowing that they will be gone as soon as they get their number called.
And those are the people I respect. So if you are going to show solidarity and turn a blind eye to those who have no determination to further their professionalism, then YOU are part of the problem. I understand this is a tough market for even CFI's, but where there is a will there's a way.

What I am advocating is that if the airlines are going to have this standard where they are going to hold high minimums they should consider everyone who has a flying job and high flight time first. The dude that got furloughed after two months of being on reserve AND who has not been flying for a year plus, should not be ahead of the dude that has been teaching stud's in the clouds on IFR plans every day, and risking their necks to let students go from VFR to IFR pilots for the past couple of years. Tell me who you would rather be flying with? Dude who has been sitting on the couch popping bon bons collecting a check, or the guy who is a go getter who has been teaching for ~2 years that is above ATP mins? Are you honestly asserting that young furlough who was fed enough bananas to pass a 121 will be better than someone who has maybe 141 schooling, college degree, military background and maybe a little life experience? I don't think so. Wow, talk about a run on sentence....

I am gonna get off the soap box here in a hot second, but here is the deal, I am not here to **** in anyone's Cheerios, but I am tired of seeing people on here talk about how they feel that every single dude who's furloughed deserves to get hired to another airline over someone who is well qualified with high PIC time. Who cares if it is in a 172 or a C90. They have paid their dues somehow. If you are furloughed and don't have a current flying job, what have you been doing to improve yourself? That is my question. If you can answer that better than I can, then you deserve the job.

1500 TT 500 ME Current flying job or recent relevant flight time. Thats my opinion. And PM me if you want my name. I'll give it to ya.

 

That alone is funny... I'd say 19-22 age range. If not then please do yourself a favor and stop reading the comic books and pick up "Northstar Over My Shoulder" by Bob Buck...

 

Well, you're obviously very sure that your opinion is the right one, that can really only come with youth or stupidity. That said, two things about the furloughed guys you're missing. 1) People may say things like "there are still alot of furloughs" not because they necessarily think that they will automatically be hired before you at another airline but also because like it or not they WILL be recalled before any hiring takes place at their airline. So until the slack is taken up by the furloughs at a particular airline they won't be hiring no matter how hot you think you are. 2) My first 121 program had five people fail of a class of 18, I passed. 12 other people passed too, that's a known quantity. You haven't gone to a 121 training event probably, therefore we can't speculate whether you'll pass or not.

Lastly, I hate to be the guy that has to say something about this, but you have sooooo little respect for furloughed guys (who lost their jobs through no fault of their own) that I can only hope that you get to walk in their shoes one day. It's a real jerk thing for me to wish that upon you, but you need to grow a compassion bone and nothing helps that like a little first hand experience.

 

I don't think anyone made that assumption based on if someone is a CFI. However, based on your words, most of us has come to the CONCLUSION that you're just a young buck with acne that doesn't know how the industry works. If you're not young, then you're just physically an older buck with a young buck's pimply faced attitude and ignorance.