Multi Requirement
04-08-2010 | 03:32 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
From: 320 CA
I'm a CFI and can understand how you feel. That being said a pilot that has passed 121 training is a better option then the ones who haven't. They know that pilot can pass the training required. They also know that that pilot already has the experience necessary to operate under 121 rules. They also know that that pilot knows what he is getting into when it comes to the 121 world.
A CFI that has never been with an airline is an unknown. Who knows if he will get through training at all let alone really get proficient.
On a side not: The way you are writing isn't helping your argument. All the "dudes" and "bros" make you sound like a kid and not a professional.
A CFI that has never been with an airline is an unknown. Who knows if he will get through training at all let alone really get proficient.
On a side not: The way you are writing isn't helping your argument. All the "dudes" and "bros" make you sound like a kid and not a professional.
04-08-2010 | 04:25 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 836
Likes: 0
From: EX - OHJFKCRJFO
Also I totally think they have the right to "collect a check". You pay into it just for this purpose. If your wife has a baby and you use the insurance you pay for no one will criticize you for using it.
04-08-2010 | 04:31 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: C172 Right
Ok, I can't keep my mouth shut anymore. Before I say this, I want anyone who responds to this to know that:
-Yes, I am only in flight training.
-I acknowledge that I don't know exactly how the 121 world works, and there's only one way for me to learn.
-I have nothing but respect for the guys who already did it, everyone on furlough, everyone who's a CFI, and think that yes, they should get hired first.
Now.....what I gather from this thread is that if you have any desire to make it to anything ran by the numbers 1, 2, and 1, your "time" flying 172's and Seminoles is absolutely worthless, even as a CFI. To get hired by a 121 carrier of any kind, you need 121 experience, and to get 121 experience, you need to get hired by a 121 carrier, no exceptions. It almost seems that unless you already made it through a 121 training program, you have less than no chance at coming close to this scene. My little time flying "airplane" (172's) will do nothing more than allow me to be a career CFI, and take on all the disrespect that comes with it. How much of this is accurate? I have no intention to offend anyone here, I just want to know the facts.
-Yes, I am only in flight training.
-I acknowledge that I don't know exactly how the 121 world works, and there's only one way for me to learn.
-I have nothing but respect for the guys who already did it, everyone on furlough, everyone who's a CFI, and think that yes, they should get hired first.
Now.....what I gather from this thread is that if you have any desire to make it to anything ran by the numbers 1, 2, and 1, your "time" flying 172's and Seminoles is absolutely worthless, even as a CFI. To get hired by a 121 carrier of any kind, you need 121 experience, and to get 121 experience, you need to get hired by a 121 carrier, no exceptions. It almost seems that unless you already made it through a 121 training program, you have less than no chance at coming close to this scene. My little time flying "airplane" (172's) will do nothing more than allow me to be a career CFI, and take on all the disrespect that comes with it. How much of this is accurate? I have no intention to offend anyone here, I just want to know the facts.
04-08-2010 | 04:58 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: Satan's Camaro
Ok, I can't keep my mouth shut anymore. Before I say this, I want anyone who responds to this to know that:
-Yes, I am only in flight training.
-I acknowledge that I don't know exactly how the 121 world works, and there's only one way for me to learn.
-I have nothing but respect for the guys who already did it, everyone on furlough, everyone who's a CFI, and think that yes, they should get hired first.
Now.....what I gather from this thread is that if you have any desire to make it to anything ran by the numbers 1, 2, and 1, your "time" flying 172's and Seminoles is absolutely worthless, even as a CFI. To get hired by a 121 carrier of any kind, you need 121 experience, and to get 121 experience, you need to get hired by a 121 carrier, no exceptions. It almost seems that unless you already made it through a 121 training program, you have less than no chance at coming close to this scene. My little time flying "airplane" (172's) will do nothing more than allow me to be a career CFI, and take on all the disrespect that comes with it. How much of this is accurate? I have no intention to offend anyone here, I just want to know the facts.
-Yes, I am only in flight training.
-I acknowledge that I don't know exactly how the 121 world works, and there's only one way for me to learn.
-I have nothing but respect for the guys who already did it, everyone on furlough, everyone who's a CFI, and think that yes, they should get hired first.
Now.....what I gather from this thread is that if you have any desire to make it to anything ran by the numbers 1, 2, and 1, your "time" flying 172's and Seminoles is absolutely worthless, even as a CFI. To get hired by a 121 carrier of any kind, you need 121 experience, and to get 121 experience, you need to get hired by a 121 carrier, no exceptions. It almost seems that unless you already made it through a 121 training program, you have less than no chance at coming close to this scene. My little time flying "airplane" (172's) will do nothing more than allow me to be a career CFI, and take on all the disrespect that comes with it. How much of this is accurate? I have no intention to offend anyone here, I just want to know the facts.
Also, like others have said, the danger with hiring non 121 people is that their training capacity is an unknown. With a 121 person, you know they're going to pass training. It's not that non-121 pilots will never get hired, it's just that right now there are so many of our union brothers and sisters on the street that we feel deserve to be brought back into the fold before all the others.
The time will come, probably sooner than we all think, when non-121 pilots will be hired, but anybody who thinks that any airline is going to push furloughees aside to pick up CFIs is kidding themselves.
04-08-2010 | 05:03 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 810
Likes: 0
From: King Air 200 CA Hawker 800/900 FO
Ok, I can't keep my mouth shut anymore. Before I say this, I want anyone who responds to this to know that:
-Yes, I am only in flight training.
-I acknowledge that I don't know exactly how the 121 world works, and there's only one way for me to learn.
-I have nothing but respect for the guys who already did it, everyone on furlough, everyone who's a CFI, and think that yes, they should get hired first.
Now.....what I gather from this thread is that if you have any desire to make it to anything ran by the numbers 1, 2, and 1, your "time" flying 172's and Seminoles is absolutely worthless, even as a CFI. To get hired by a 121 carrier of any kind, you need 121 experience, and to get 121 experience, you need to get hired by a 121 carrier, no exceptions. It almost seems that unless you already made it through a 121 training program, you have less than no chance at coming close to this scene. My little time flying "airplane" (172's) will do nothing more than allow me to be a career CFI, and take on all the disrespect that comes with it. How much of this is accurate? I have no intention to offend anyone here, I just want to know the facts.
-Yes, I am only in flight training.
-I acknowledge that I don't know exactly how the 121 world works, and there's only one way for me to learn.
-I have nothing but respect for the guys who already did it, everyone on furlough, everyone who's a CFI, and think that yes, they should get hired first.
Now.....what I gather from this thread is that if you have any desire to make it to anything ran by the numbers 1, 2, and 1, your "time" flying 172's and Seminoles is absolutely worthless, even as a CFI. To get hired by a 121 carrier of any kind, you need 121 experience, and to get 121 experience, you need to get hired by a 121 carrier, no exceptions. It almost seems that unless you already made it through a 121 training program, you have less than no chance at coming close to this scene. My little time flying "airplane" (172's) will do nothing more than allow me to be a career CFI, and take on all the disrespect that comes with it. How much of this is accurate? I have no intention to offend anyone here, I just want to know the facts.
I could see how you think it's a catch-22 but, what the real debate is not that the experienced CFI is not qualified to get hired by a regional, but rather that the furloughed 121 guy is BETTER qualified for that position. You have to remember that HR makes a lot of these hiring decisions. It just simply makes sense that the 121 guy has been there before and gotten through the training and can do it again. I'm all for giving CFIs and experienced piston guys a chance but someone that is unable to make it through training costs the company money and its their job to select candidates that have the lowest risk of costing the company additional money.
04-08-2010 | 05:27 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
From: UAL Guppy CA
Chuck Yeager period dot
I probably have buddies at your airline, so let me know your name so I can have them tell you. Listen, I'm not here to make friends because I have them already. But if you are going to try and make subtle attacks on dudes for having a strong and unpopular opinion on things, that shows character. I understand that a lot of dudes on here have bro's that are on the street, and I have compassion for anyone who loses a job without it being their doing. But I do not have compassion for dudes who collect a check and sit on the couch with no desire to get back down in the trenches and do some stalls and falls. That would require two things, 1) Determination and 2) Luck to find a school that will take them knowing that they will be gone as soon as they get their number called.
And those are the people I respect. So if you are going to show solidarity and turn a blind eye to those who have no determination to further their professionalism, then YOU are part of the problem. I understand this is a tough market for even CFI's, but where there is a will there's a way.
What I am advocating is that if the airlines are going to have this standard where they are going to hold high minimums they should consider everyone who has a flying job and high flight time first. The dude that got furloughed after two months of being on reserve AND who has not been flying for a year plus, should not be ahead of the dude that has been teaching stud's in the clouds on IFR plans every day, and risking their necks to let students go from VFR to IFR pilots for the past couple of years. Tell me who you would rather be flying with? Dude who has been sitting on the couch popping bon bons collecting a check, or the guy who is a go getter who has been teaching for ~2 years that is above ATP mins? Are you honestly asserting that young furlough who was fed enough bananas to pass a 121 will be better than someone who has maybe 141 schooling, college degree, military background and maybe a little life experience? I don't think so. Wow, talk about a run on sentence....
I am gonna get off the soap box here in a hot second, but here is the deal, I am not here to **** in anyone's Cheerios, but I am tired of seeing people on here talk about how they feel that every single dude who's furloughed deserves to get hired to another airline over someone who is well qualified with high PIC time. Who cares if it is in a 172 or a C90. They have paid their dues somehow. If you are furloughed and don't have a current flying job, what have you been doing to improve yourself? That is my question. If you can answer that better than I can, then you deserve the job.
1500 TT 500 ME Current flying job or recent relevant flight time. Thats my opinion. And PM me if you want my name. I'll give it to ya.
I probably have buddies at your airline, so let me know your name so I can have them tell you. Listen, I'm not here to make friends because I have them already. But if you are going to try and make subtle attacks on dudes for having a strong and unpopular opinion on things, that shows character. I understand that a lot of dudes on here have bro's that are on the street, and I have compassion for anyone who loses a job without it being their doing. But I do not have compassion for dudes who collect a check and sit on the couch with no desire to get back down in the trenches and do some stalls and falls. That would require two things, 1) Determination and 2) Luck to find a school that will take them knowing that they will be gone as soon as they get their number called.
And those are the people I respect. So if you are going to show solidarity and turn a blind eye to those who have no determination to further their professionalism, then YOU are part of the problem. I understand this is a tough market for even CFI's, but where there is a will there's a way.
What I am advocating is that if the airlines are going to have this standard where they are going to hold high minimums they should consider everyone who has a flying job and high flight time first. The dude that got furloughed after two months of being on reserve AND who has not been flying for a year plus, should not be ahead of the dude that has been teaching stud's in the clouds on IFR plans every day, and risking their necks to let students go from VFR to IFR pilots for the past couple of years. Tell me who you would rather be flying with? Dude who has been sitting on the couch popping bon bons collecting a check, or the guy who is a go getter who has been teaching for ~2 years that is above ATP mins? Are you honestly asserting that young furlough who was fed enough bananas to pass a 121 will be better than someone who has maybe 141 schooling, college degree, military background and maybe a little life experience? I don't think so. Wow, talk about a run on sentence....
I am gonna get off the soap box here in a hot second, but here is the deal, I am not here to **** in anyone's Cheerios, but I am tired of seeing people on here talk about how they feel that every single dude who's furloughed deserves to get hired to another airline over someone who is well qualified with high PIC time. Who cares if it is in a 172 or a C90. They have paid their dues somehow. If you are furloughed and don't have a current flying job, what have you been doing to improve yourself? That is my question. If you can answer that better than I can, then you deserve the job.
1500 TT 500 ME Current flying job or recent relevant flight time. Thats my opinion. And PM me if you want my name. I'll give it to ya.
Oh yeah I do have a 4 year degree and went through a 141 school, so have a lot of folks on the street.
04-08-2010 | 06:09 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: CRJ 700/FO-Furloughed
Chuck Yeager period dot
I probably have buddies at your airline, so let me know your name so I can have them tell you. Listen, I'm not here to make friends because I have them already. But if you are going to try and make subtle attacks on dudes for having a strong and unpopular opinion on things, that shows character. I understand that a lot of dudes on here have bro's that are on the street, and I have compassion for anyone who loses a job without it being their doing. But I do not have compassion for dudes who collect a check and sit on the couch with no desire to get back down in the trenches and do some stalls and falls. That would require two things, 1) Determination and 2) Luck to find a school that will take them knowing that they will be gone as soon as they get their number called.
And those are the people I respect. So if you are going to show solidarity and turn a blind eye to those who have no determination to further their professionalism, then YOU are part of the problem. I understand this is a tough market for even CFI's, but where there is a will there's a way.
What I am advocating is that if the airlines are going to have this standard where they are going to hold high minimums they should consider everyone who has a flying job and high flight time first. The dude that got furloughed after two months of being on reserve AND who has not been flying for a year plus, should not be ahead of the dude that has been teaching stud's in the clouds on IFR plans every day, and risking their necks to let students go from VFR to IFR pilots for the past couple of years. Tell me who you would rather be flying with? Dude who has been sitting on the couch popping bon bons collecting a check, or the guy who is a go getter who has been teaching for ~2 years that is above ATP mins? Are you honestly asserting that young furlough who was fed enough bananas to pass a 121 will be better than someone who has maybe 141 schooling, college degree, military background and maybe a little life experience? I don't think so. Wow, talk about a run on sentence....
I am gonna get off the soap box here in a hot second, but here is the deal, I am not here to **** in anyone's Cheerios, but I am tired of seeing people on here talk about how they feel that every single dude who's furloughed deserves to get hired to another airline over someone who is well qualified with high PIC time. Who cares if it is in a 172 or a C90. They have paid their dues somehow. If you are furloughed and don't have a current flying job, what have you been doing to improve yourself? That is my question. If you can answer that better than I can, then you deserve the job.
1500 TT 500 ME Current flying job or recent relevant flight time. Thats my opinion. And PM me if you want my name. I'll give it to ya.
I probably have buddies at your airline, so let me know your name so I can have them tell you. Listen, I'm not here to make friends because I have them already. But if you are going to try and make subtle attacks on dudes for having a strong and unpopular opinion on things, that shows character. I understand that a lot of dudes on here have bro's that are on the street, and I have compassion for anyone who loses a job without it being their doing. But I do not have compassion for dudes who collect a check and sit on the couch with no desire to get back down in the trenches and do some stalls and falls. That would require two things, 1) Determination and 2) Luck to find a school that will take them knowing that they will be gone as soon as they get their number called.
And those are the people I respect. So if you are going to show solidarity and turn a blind eye to those who have no determination to further their professionalism, then YOU are part of the problem. I understand this is a tough market for even CFI's, but where there is a will there's a way.
What I am advocating is that if the airlines are going to have this standard where they are going to hold high minimums they should consider everyone who has a flying job and high flight time first. The dude that got furloughed after two months of being on reserve AND who has not been flying for a year plus, should not be ahead of the dude that has been teaching stud's in the clouds on IFR plans every day, and risking their necks to let students go from VFR to IFR pilots for the past couple of years. Tell me who you would rather be flying with? Dude who has been sitting on the couch popping bon bons collecting a check, or the guy who is a go getter who has been teaching for ~2 years that is above ATP mins? Are you honestly asserting that young furlough who was fed enough bananas to pass a 121 will be better than someone who has maybe 141 schooling, college degree, military background and maybe a little life experience? I don't think so. Wow, talk about a run on sentence....
I am gonna get off the soap box here in a hot second, but here is the deal, I am not here to **** in anyone's Cheerios, but I am tired of seeing people on here talk about how they feel that every single dude who's furloughed deserves to get hired to another airline over someone who is well qualified with high PIC time. Who cares if it is in a 172 or a C90. They have paid their dues somehow. If you are furloughed and don't have a current flying job, what have you been doing to improve yourself? That is my question. If you can answer that better than I can, then you deserve the job.
1500 TT 500 ME Current flying job or recent relevant flight time. Thats my opinion. And PM me if you want my name. I'll give it to ya.
Last edited by colead3; 04-08-2010 at 06:25 PM.
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