Multi Requirement
04-09-2010 | 09:55 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Im personally really sick of reading this crap day in and day out... Its the same stuff over and over. You high time Airline pilots are always looking down your nose at those "Wet-ATP-Kid-Wonders" that make it to the right seat....
The airline must have saw some skill in that kid or he wouldnt have been there. If you dont like the industry then leave... If you had to have more hours to be hired than the current market that sucks sorry but i dont wanna hear you complain. I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice. You should be happy that we dont have to live off food stamps while waiting for a job....Im really sorry if you did, but now you are living your dream you should be stoked. Sounds to me like you are a bit immature to say stuff like that. Im sitting in a marketing office at an insurance company going insane behind a desk to pay my bills waiting for my chance to fly for an airline or cargo company, i have no clue what "dues" you are talking about but that is not in the job requirements sir you need to grow up.
As far as the minimums id say they are gonna be high to start off with just like everyone else. But as ive already learned newer pilots just need to hang in there our time will come.
The airline must have saw some skill in that kid or he wouldnt have been there. If you dont like the industry then leave... If you had to have more hours to be hired than the current market that sucks sorry but i dont wanna hear you complain. I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice. You should be happy that we dont have to live off food stamps while waiting for a job....Im really sorry if you did, but now you are living your dream you should be stoked. Sounds to me like you are a bit immature to say stuff like that. Im sitting in a marketing office at an insurance company going insane behind a desk to pay my bills waiting for my chance to fly for an airline or cargo company, i have no clue what "dues" you are talking about but that is not in the job requirements sir you need to grow up.
As far as the minimums id say they are gonna be high to start off with just like everyone else. But as ive already learned newer pilots just need to hang in there our time will come.
To a lot of these guys, the regional was their career goal. I remember in particular one captain who said that this regional was his career aspiration. He could live where he wanted to live and quickly be in the top 10 at the regional by the time he was 50. The point is, a lot of these guys who didn't get hired with the regional until they had over 5,000 hours and over 1,000 multi turbine PIC believe that no one else should get hired at that regional with less time. IMO, it may make them question whether or not what they did was right especially when someone with 250 hours has proven they can fly the airplane they worked so hard to get to 20+ years ago.
04-09-2010 | 10:02 AM
#52
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Baron B-55 Left Seat
The old time captains don't always ease up even if you are a 3-4 year FO. They look at those younger than 25 as babies. I have flown with several captains who have been a captain at the airline longer than I have been alive! These guys are ****ed off because for 25 years they have been flying 6 legs a day into crappy overnights with crappy airplanes at crappy wages. They complain about money and how $83 an hour is not enough to support their family of 5. They don't realize that they could be making double that at majors. For them, it is all about living where they want to live. Newport News, VA is a much "better" place in their opinion than Charlotte or Philly.
To a lot of these guys, the regional was their career goal. I remember in particular one captain who said that this regional was his career aspiration. He could live where he wanted to live and quickly be in the top 10 at the regional by the time he was 50. The point is, a lot of these guys who didn't get hired with the regional until they had over 5,000 hours and over 1,000 multi turbine PIC believe that no one else should get hired at that regional with less time. IMO, it may make them question whether or not what they did was right especially when someone with 250 hours has proven they can fly the airplane they worked so hard to get to 20+ years ago.
To a lot of these guys, the regional was their career goal. I remember in particular one captain who said that this regional was his career aspiration. He could live where he wanted to live and quickly be in the top 10 at the regional by the time he was 50. The point is, a lot of these guys who didn't get hired with the regional until they had over 5,000 hours and over 1,000 multi turbine PIC believe that no one else should get hired at that regional with less time. IMO, it may make them question whether or not what they did was right especially when someone with 250 hours has proven they can fly the airplane they worked so hard to get to 20+ years ago.
I absolutely agree but being bitter is not the way to go... So you made a bad career choice in staying in the regionals, you get what you ask for. And as i said earlier as a young pilot it makes me angry to hear these older guys talk like that... its not my fault you had to live off of bologna and cheese and fly a caravan for 10 years to be hired, i feel for ya, but i dont and you should be happy that the industry is growing, instead of being bitter and high and mighty how about coming down to our level and sharing your knowlege. As i said if you arent happy in the industry then get out. No sense in acting like some little kid about it, you cant change it thats just the way it is.
The demand for pilots has went through the roof in the past 20 or so years. 340 million people in the USA and only 800k pilots...thats less that 0.5% of the population, With that little group and the big demand of airtravel and the addition of new airlines and planes there are gonna be people like myself hired that had less experiance than you did when you were hired.
Bad news for the older ones but the minimums will keep going down slowly until the FAA steps in and regulates it which will eventually happen. But that just means the industry is growing.
04-09-2010 | 10:03 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
I'm gonna play devil's advocate/high time Airline pilot here... These statements may or may not reflect my personal opinion. I just want to give you something to think about.
Have a good day...
Im personally really sick of reading this crap day in and day out... Its the same stuff over and over. You high time Airline pilots are always Always? Perhaps a generalization on your part? looking down your nose at those "Wet-ATP-Kid-Wonders" that make it to the right seat....
The airline must have saw some skill in that kid or he wouldnt have been there. Or maybe they just saw somebody who could legally fill the seat. If you dont like the industry then leave... Not always practical, especially in today's economy. Also, some might be staying to do their part to try and make the industry better. If you had to have more hours to be hired than the current market that sucks sorry but i dont wanna hear you complain. And who wants to hear you complain? I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me Pot, meet kettle and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice. You should be happy that we dont have to live off food stamps while waiting for a job.... They're probably too busy worrying about their own situation to be happy about yours Im really sorry if you did, but now you are living your dream you should be stoked. More like, we are living YOUR dream. Our dreams have may have evolved a bit, hence not being so "stoked". Sounds to me like you are a bit immature to say stuff like that. Pot, I believe you've already met kettle. Im sitting in a marketing office at an insurance company going insane behind a desk to pay my bills waiting for my chance to fly for an airline or cargo company, i have no clue what "dues" you are talking about This may be part of the reason the old bitter captains don't respect you as much as you think they should. but that is not in the job requirements sir you need to grow up. Pot and kettle are best friends...
As far as the minimums id say they are gonna be high to start off with just like everyone else. But as ive already learned newer pilots just need to hang in there our time will come.
The airline must have saw some skill in that kid or he wouldnt have been there. Or maybe they just saw somebody who could legally fill the seat. If you dont like the industry then leave... Not always practical, especially in today's economy. Also, some might be staying to do their part to try and make the industry better. If you had to have more hours to be hired than the current market that sucks sorry but i dont wanna hear you complain. And who wants to hear you complain? I am only 20 years old, ive jumped hurdles and moved mountains to finish my flight training and ill be dammed if i let some bitter old capitain sit here and disrespect me Pot, meet kettle and other young pilots by saying we havent payed our dues...Hell just finishing training is almost impossible nowadays, flight schools trying to rip you off, greedy examiners, bad weather, terrible economy, high fuel prices, bad hiring market, and to beat it all the more experiance pilots like some of you are so bitter you wont even look in the direction of a student pilot or a new pilot let alone help them or give them advice. You should be happy that we dont have to live off food stamps while waiting for a job.... They're probably too busy worrying about their own situation to be happy about yours Im really sorry if you did, but now you are living your dream you should be stoked. More like, we are living YOUR dream. Our dreams have may have evolved a bit, hence not being so "stoked". Sounds to me like you are a bit immature to say stuff like that. Pot, I believe you've already met kettle. Im sitting in a marketing office at an insurance company going insane behind a desk to pay my bills waiting for my chance to fly for an airline or cargo company, i have no clue what "dues" you are talking about This may be part of the reason the old bitter captains don't respect you as much as you think they should. but that is not in the job requirements sir you need to grow up. Pot and kettle are best friends...
As far as the minimums id say they are gonna be high to start off with just like everyone else. But as ive already learned newer pilots just need to hang in there our time will come.
04-09-2010 | 10:10 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 0
I absolutely agree but being bitter is not the way to go... So you made a bad career choice in staying in the regionals, you get what you ask for. And as i said earlier as a young pilot it makes me angry to hear these older guys talk like that... its not my fault you had to live off of bologna and cheese and fly a caravan for 10 years to be hired, i feel for ya, but i dont and you should be happy that the industry is growing, instead of being bitter and high and mighty how about coming down to our level and sharing your knowlege. As i said if you arent happy in the industry then get out. No sense in acting like some little kid about it, you cant change it thats just the way it is.
The demand for pilots has went through the roof in the past 20 or so years. 340 million people in the USA and only 800k pilots...thats less that 0.5% of the population, With that little group and the big demand of airtravel and the addition of new airlines and planes there are gonna be people like myself hired that had less experiance than you did when you were hired.
Bad news for the older ones but the minimums will keep going down slowly until the FAA steps in and regulates it which will eventually happen. But that just means the industry is growing.
The demand for pilots has went through the roof in the past 20 or so years. 340 million people in the USA and only 800k pilots...thats less that 0.5% of the population, With that little group and the big demand of airtravel and the addition of new airlines and planes there are gonna be people like myself hired that had less experiance than you did when you were hired.
Bad news for the older ones but the minimums will keep going down slowly until the FAA steps in and regulates it which will eventually happen. But that just means the industry is growing.
04-09-2010 | 10:15 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Baron B-55 Left Seat
Haha you can get angry if you want i dont mind it, My opinions still stand. I apologize for the generalization, i will re-phrase. SOME airline pilots are bitter, and SOME older capitains are bitter.
The remarks about young pilots not being qualified is also a generalization, and your remark about not leagally being able to fill a seat is a bit confusing to me, I doubt the airlines are illeagaly hiring FOs...They all have the appropriate raitings to be there.
If they wanna better the industry they need to stop acting like this and start helping these "young" pilots become better.
As far as leaving the industry, if you arent happy where you are then leave, if its not practical and you cant then suck it up and wait til you can. But acting like a child isnt helping you.
Dont wanna hear me complain? Thats fair.. over look my posts then.
Worrying about their situtaion? Again sorry if your career didnt turn out the way you wanted to im sorry but not my fault, maybe im different but if i was homeless and saw a happy well off middle class family pretty sure i wouldnt be bitter at them just happy for em principle still stands.
And as far as your dreams. You wouldnt be here if your dream wasnt to fly, i dont care if you are making 25k a year or 100k a year you are flying a plane for money, that is my dream and at some point was yours, once again if your career isnt what you want...leave or suck it up and leave when you can
And again with the dues crap, listen i didnt fly a caravan for 10 years, i didnt apply to every airline for 10 years and live off of scraps of food. but i went through the same damn training as you and i just got lucky, now why the hell would that make you bitter?
And i dont think a capitain should just respect me but i do expect a professional pilot to be mature enough not to DISRESPECT me we are on the same team.
My logic is spot on, it is simply silly to be bitter at up and coming pilots simply because they were hired earlier in their career or life than you.
Have a good day.
04-09-2010 | 10:19 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Baron B-55 Left Seat
Dude or dudette. People that have already jumped over the cliff are trying to yell to you from the bottom to not jump. Why is my gut feeling telling me that you're going to jump anyways? It's all part of a cycle and you're going to be part of it soon yelling from the bottom.
My dream is to fly for a living, money doesnt affect that, i will invest and do what i need to make ends meat, maybe im better off than most i have been blessed with a Fiancee` that is a vet and some money already invested in some franchises. The power to better this industry is in the pilots hands it doesnt have to be a vicious cycle.
04-09-2010 | 10:46 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Haha you can get angry if you want I'm personally not angry, and I don't understand why you think I am. Re-read the first part of the post, which states that the opinions offered may or may not be my own. I'm really just trying to help. I don't consider myself a high time Airline pilot, and I'm not a Captain. But I'm trying to help you think about things you may or may not know much about, and from a different perspective. If you don't appreciate it, that's OK; I tried. dont mind it, My opinions still stand. I apologize for the generalization, i will re-phrase. SOME airline pilots are bitter, and SOME older capitains are bitter.
The remarks about young pilots not being qualified is also a generalization, I personally agree and your remark about not leagally being able to fill a seat is a bit confusing to me, I doubt the airlines are illeagaly hiring FOs...They all have the appropriate raitings to be there. Re read that part as well. What I was saying was that, in some cases, the airline probably didn't hire low-time people because they were impressed with their skills. They hired them because they LEGALLY COULD fill the seat.
If they wanna better the industry they need to stop acting like this and start helping these "young" pilots become better. Fair enough, but there's a lot more to it than that.
As far as leaving the industry, if you arent happy where you are then leave, if its not practical and you cant then suck it up and wait til you can. But acting like a child isnt helping you.
Dont wanna hear me complain? Thats fair.. over look my posts then.
Worrying about their situtaion? Again sorry if your career didnt turn out the way you wanted to im sorry but not my fault, maybe im different but if i was homeless and saw a happy well off middle class family pretty sure i wouldnt be bitter at them just happy for em principle still stands.
And as far as your dreams. You wouldnt be here if your dream wasnt to fly, i dont care if you are making 25k a year or 100k a year you are flying a plane for money, that is my dream and at some point was yours, once again if your career isnt what you want...leave or suck it up and leave when you can
And again with the dues crap, listen i didnt fly a caravan for 10 years, i didnt apply to every airline for 10 years and live off of scraps of food. but i went through the same damn training as you and i just got lucky, now why the hell would that make you bitter? Again, I don't think I'm bitter. We don't even know each other. The statements from my previous reply were made in a general sense. Most of them don't reflect my personal opinion, but I'm sure they reflect the opinions of some people you will (and have already, it seems) encounter in this industry. There is no need to direct anything personal towards me regarding my career or what I think of it. If you were saying "you" meaning pilots in general, rather than me personally, then disregard the last statement.
And i dont think a capitain should just respect me but i do expect a professional pilot to be mature enough not to DISRESPECT me we are on the same team. Join the team first. Pass initial, your checkride, and OE. If you have a good attitude and can handle your duties competently, you will be respected. If not, then yeah the guy you're sitting next to has issues that have nothing to do with you.
My logic is spot on, it is simply silly to be bitter at up and coming pilots simply because they were hired earlier in their career or life than you.
Have a good day.
The remarks about young pilots not being qualified is also a generalization, I personally agree and your remark about not leagally being able to fill a seat is a bit confusing to me, I doubt the airlines are illeagaly hiring FOs...They all have the appropriate raitings to be there. Re read that part as well. What I was saying was that, in some cases, the airline probably didn't hire low-time people because they were impressed with their skills. They hired them because they LEGALLY COULD fill the seat.
If they wanna better the industry they need to stop acting like this and start helping these "young" pilots become better. Fair enough, but there's a lot more to it than that.
As far as leaving the industry, if you arent happy where you are then leave, if its not practical and you cant then suck it up and wait til you can. But acting like a child isnt helping you.
Dont wanna hear me complain? Thats fair.. over look my posts then.
Worrying about their situtaion? Again sorry if your career didnt turn out the way you wanted to im sorry but not my fault, maybe im different but if i was homeless and saw a happy well off middle class family pretty sure i wouldnt be bitter at them just happy for em principle still stands.
And as far as your dreams. You wouldnt be here if your dream wasnt to fly, i dont care if you are making 25k a year or 100k a year you are flying a plane for money, that is my dream and at some point was yours, once again if your career isnt what you want...leave or suck it up and leave when you can
And again with the dues crap, listen i didnt fly a caravan for 10 years, i didnt apply to every airline for 10 years and live off of scraps of food. but i went through the same damn training as you and i just got lucky, now why the hell would that make you bitter? Again, I don't think I'm bitter. We don't even know each other. The statements from my previous reply were made in a general sense. Most of them don't reflect my personal opinion, but I'm sure they reflect the opinions of some people you will (and have already, it seems) encounter in this industry. There is no need to direct anything personal towards me regarding my career or what I think of it. If you were saying "you" meaning pilots in general, rather than me personally, then disregard the last statement.
And i dont think a capitain should just respect me but i do expect a professional pilot to be mature enough not to DISRESPECT me we are on the same team. Join the team first. Pass initial, your checkride, and OE. If you have a good attitude and can handle your duties competently, you will be respected. If not, then yeah the guy you're sitting next to has issues that have nothing to do with you.
My logic is spot on, it is simply silly to be bitter at up and coming pilots simply because they were hired earlier in their career or life than you.
Have a good day.
Last edited by Yzerman; 04-09-2010 at 10:59 AM.
04-09-2010 | 10:57 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
My dream is to fly for a living, money doesnt affect that, i will invest and do what i need to make ends meat, maybe im better off than most i have been blessed with a Fiancee` that is a vet and some money already invested in some franchises. The power to better this industry is in the pilots hands it doesnt have to be a vicious cycle.
That's nice and all, but having guys/gals who are "better off than most" and are willing to do this job for whatever the company feels like paying, doesn't help the rest of the pilots improve conditions. It actually hurts.
Look, most (if not all) of us love to fly; if we didn't, we wouldn't be here. I totally agree with you there. But for many of us, it's our job, our career, our profession... One upon which we might completely rely in order to support ourselves, our families, etc. It's not a hobby.
Last edited by Yzerman; 04-09-2010 at 11:11 AM.
04-09-2010 | 11:15 AM
#59
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Baron B-55 Left Seat
I guess I don't understand what you mean by bettering the industry. Is it just everybody respecting each other?
That's nice and all, but having guys/gals who are "better off than most" and are willing to do this job for whatever the company feels like paying, doesn't help the rest of the pilots improve conditions. It actually hurts.
Look, most (if not all) of us love to fly; if we didn't, we wouldn't be here. I totally agree with you there. But for many of us, it's our job, our career, our profession... One which we need to support ourselves, our families, etc. It's not a hobby.
That's nice and all, but having guys/gals who are "better off than most" and are willing to do this job for whatever the company feels like paying, doesn't help the rest of the pilots improve conditions. It actually hurts.
Look, most (if not all) of us love to fly; if we didn't, we wouldn't be here. I totally agree with you there. But for many of us, it's our job, our career, our profession... One which we need to support ourselves, our families, etc. It's not a hobby.
And i also did not mean by my last post to insinuate that i was ok with low pay for pilots. My statement was that i am financially OK with the low pay for now. However my biggest issue with the industry is that they will not pay pilots what we deserve. They demand the up most professionalism in one of the toughest jobs out there, with the most demanding schedule yet they pay you less than a garbage man (no offense to people who work in the sanitation industry) I will take the 19k a year because i have to but i will join hands with every pilot out there in demanding more pay because thats whats right and that is what should happen.
Also apologies on misreading your post earlier.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
AllyHigh
Flight Schools and Training
22
04-17-2018 01:52 AM
