Not much longer, lets talk about this 2 years from now and lets see how many are standing around to fill any positions. The companies that takes care of their pilots are the ones keeping them when no pilots are to be found...............

Jump for joy? It cost the company $30K to get a pilot on the line. No matter how senior the FO is he is the cheapest labor in the company compared to the position when it comes to salary. You think he wants to lose that? Nobody else in the company would work at Skywest for the same compensation after paying 50 to 100K to get to the seat.

The person cleaning the mens room is paid for every hour at work. That person does not cost anything to train and did not invest a cent in certificates...Why dont you divide what an FO is getting paid in one day by 8 (or by the duty time he puts in). That amount hours is a normal working day for other groups or 40 hours per week and see how much per hour that FO gets paid.

In a month the cleaner is getting paid for 160 hours times X. So to compare we can divide what an FO makes in a month by 160 hours and see how he really is compensated per hour in a month after all his investments in getting to his seat.

So, I dont think so. I think Chip wants to keep their cheapest labor as long as he possible can.

 

I agree with almost everything but 2 years ago – present day I bet Chip was / is doing a little jig every time a pilot quit (especially a Captain). You know as well as I do that airlines have a hard time seeing past the hands in front of their faces. Respectfully SKW has been one of the better ones at seeing into the future but during a time when profits are shrinking and cost are growing I guarantee Chip was a happy man every time one of his pilots hit the road.

In 2 years I don't think all that much will change as there are plenty of instructors out their who meet ATP mins and are giddy with the thought of back-filling us. Now in 4-5+ years that's a completely different story. I foresee the regionals being in a lot of trouble come 2016 and beyond. And by 2020 I see the regional industry being 1/2 or less the size it is today.

 

I dont think so;

maybe I can agree that chip is happy when a senior Captain leaves because in his eyes he is getting expensive but the rest....naaaahh

you are not taking into considaration that Delta is taking 300 this year and 300 next year, JBLUE took 120 this year and is planning on taking 200 2011, Virgin America is hiring, Atlas Air and other Cargo operators are hiring and have taken Skywest pilots and among the Regionals Eagle, Pinnacle and others have already started hiring.

We have lost over 200 pilots in the seniority list at Skywest in the last 3 years without hiring anyone and the amount that are leaving is increasing for every month.

The 1500 hour rule passed and today in the news they are talking at even harder demands to be able to get hired by a Regional.

Also, when interviews are taken at skywest not all can handle it, I've seen 45% getting employed and heard of numbers as low as 2 in 9 at the interview being offered employment so to think that all out there are qualified to be offered employment is wrong.

Times will get very interesting and it is the right time right now to fight for better pay and get back the respect that the pilot profession deserves and lost in the last 10 years..........

 

Delta did not take 300 this year, they took 175 with 130 returning from long term leave. JB might be looking at 120, I know AirTran needs 150 by March as well as all the furloughed pilots who are being recalled. I also understand that VA plans to double their fleet by the end of next year. All this will do is skim the top of the regionals. After all you're talking about a drop in the bucket when you look at the numbers; over 17K pilots in the regionals, well over 2000 furloughed pilots and MIL (yes there aren't that many of them but they still count). It will take the mass hiring of instructors into the regionals for Mgmnt to start taking actions against attrition, until then SKW will be afforded the luxury of being picky. Once the instructor pool starts to dry up things will get interesting.

BTW, what's the average longevity that is currently holding upgrade? It will be late 2011 if not early 2012 before anyone under 5 years with the company even sees the left seat of the RJ. After next year all bets are off.

The most Jr person in the last upgrade class had a 8/04 DOH. Between him and the 5 year mark there are over 550 pilots. A portion of which are already CA's and many have restricting bids that will cause them to be passed over (RJ CA SBA). But you can add back into that list well over 230 EMB CA's (125+ that will take just about anything RJ) who are looking for transition. Realistically in order for a pilot with a DOH in early 06 to be awarded RJ upgrade it will probably take until early 2012. But at no time during that time will SKW have a hard time filling classes. There are just too many who want to work and are able to work for the regionals. Once again, after early 2012 all bets are off.

If you want to add to it EMB upgrades go ahead but this time last year we had 57 E120's and now we are down to 48 with more scheduled to be pulled. My opinion is that we will get down to around 35 and the attrition of 120's will severely slow. To date there isn't a replacement for the Bro.......yet. Even with that being said most EMB CA's will be holding out for an RJ slot on the westcoast.

 

Are you talking about longevity raises with this 1%, or does the entire graph go up 1% per year? Or a better way to ask, once you get to year 12 (or whatever year you top out at), do you get an additional 1% year raise?

Pay is all about pattern bargaining between carriers. I don't know of an airline out there that doesn't have longevity increases, so I wouldn't consider that a "raise". Just my opinion, but you really SHOULD argue about the semantics of what a "raise" means. A 1% per year raise means that your buying power will be less 5 years from now than it is today.

You can bash unions all you want, but you benefit from the work they do.

 

I'm with this guy.

 

Here is the pay proposal:

CRJ and EMB CA: base rate increase of 1.5% effective immediately
CRJ 700 Block Hour Override (BHO) from 5% to 6%
CRJ 900 BHO from 5% to 8%

CRJ FO: base rate increase of 1% effective immediately
FO CRJ and EMB Scale increased from 7 to 8 year max

EMB FO: base rate increase of 5% effective immediately.

ALL PILOTS:
Additional 1% increase on Jan 1, 2012
Additional 1% increase on Jan 1, 2013

Again, to repeat prior posted information. These pay increases are NOT contractual. We can take the money today and still vote in a UNION tomorrow. We can ask for 20% more money tomorrow. We can ask for 50% more money tomorrow.

Respectfully, a longevity increase is in fact a pay "raise". You may disagree and that is fine. The largest other "raises" I have received in aviation came

1) when I moved from the right seat of a Twin Otter, to the left seat of a Twin Otter.

2) when I moved from the right seat of a CRJ to the left seat of a CRJ.

3) my next big pay raise will hopefully come when I move from the left seat of a CRJ to the right seat of a Boeing made product.

This is the reality of the industry I choose to work in. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. If I want management pay, I should apply for a job in management.

From a purely economic perspective, without any consideration for other reasons why a person may want to work for a specific airline, if I want to get paid drastically more to fly airplanes I need to go get a job at a company that pays more for that service I can provide because the ECONOMICS of that business model permit those compensation levels.

Minor league baseball players will never be compensated major league salaries. Flame away folks, I could care less.

For the record, I am not bashing unions, I am only bashing ALPA. If you like them great. I am not marginalizing their accomplishments. But I strongly oppose their current incarnation.

As a side note, I can't stand the American Trial Lawyers Association either, but to be quite honest, I credit their work with as much effect on the reforms and airline industry improvements over the years as ALPA. Nothing motivates airline management more than the threat of or actual cost of multi-million dollar tort liability and possibility of ruined corporate brand names.

 

"They're great! Times have never been better for me! My total compensation went from $707,000 in 2008 to $977,000 in 2009! A 38.1% increase! And in a recession! I can't wait to see my raises after the recession! I deserved it though because of my stellar work in saving millions by slashing health care. A 1% raise would have been cool too though....ya'll should definitely take it."

Oh, and thanks for all you do!
-Chip

Page 137
http://www.skywest.com/skywinc/inves...s/10k-2009.pdf

 

For the record, I don't think this debate should be about fighting for 15% raises across the board or 10% matching 401K contributions. I understand and agree with Matchpoint, JDflyer and a few others who speak of our role as contract carriers and our the limits our pay must unfortunately fall within if we want to remain competitive. That being said, I feel very strongly that 1% isn't enough and further more, I disagree that we can come back and bargain for more money anytime we want. These payrates are good through 2013 so the next time we will have the chance to make any headway is this time, three years from now. As has been stated, the numbers don't show enough movement between now and then to really squeeze any regional management into increasing wages to retain pilots. 2020 may be a different story when UAL, DAL and AA start losing 800 guys a year, for through 2013 I don't believe we'll have that much leverage.

Chip's Job is to play hardball with SAPA, the BoD wouldn't have it any other way. He doesn't have the leeway Jerry had to do exactly as he sees fit with the company, therefore, I believe these pay negotiations are more open than many in years past. If you think you deserve more, be it 3% or 15% (for some on the SAPA boards), then vote "No." It will not only send a message to management, but it will also send one to SAPA. MM has done a great job so far and I believe he has much more to offer. Give him the message that we believe in his abilities to do more for the pilot group by voting "No."

Finally, the main reason SWAPA works so well is because the pilots know all too well that a corrupt union is worthless, and ensure that their best interest are served by keeping their reps. on a very short leash. The more SAPA reps feel that they're held accountable for their work, the better job they'll do. Many are volunteers and are working from their desire to better the company, if you believe in their strength to secure better compensation at SkyWest, then vote.....well, you get the idea

 

Great Post!!:

got to love the facts.......