Would one of you CAL pilots throwing the term "scab" around please post the part of your scope that prohibits United from operating 50+ seat United Express flights out of IAH, CLE, or EWR...Chapter and verse let's hear the language...

"This sucks, change it" is not a violation of the contract. Give us the language that is being violated.

Let's hear the language 757Driver.

 

Good post, and very reasonable arguments. There isn't any practical short term solution. Inevitably, like all things airline, this was going to be a cyclical manpower model. The CRJ-200 came out and everyone wanted a million of them. They are essentially money losing tin cans now at the current price of oil. The CRJ-700 was the next savior; now it's becoming clear that to be profitable we need to be at 90-100 seats. Funny because that's getting close to the size management parked when they claimed they needed the 50 seaters.

I guess the point is that it appears that regional pilots are in for some painful times. The pendulum appears to be shifting back towards bigger, and with that shift, there is some momentum for some of the flying that had left mainline to come back. The gyrations of that will probably be as fun for the regional folks as it was for the mainline folks when we lost it.

I noticed nobody touched my point about having been threatened jumpseat denial by Skywest pilots in the recent past, but I never took that personally. ***Disregard last, just saw Hayduke's post**** I frankly just didn't really care. Sure I wanted to get home to my family, but it just was what it was. I figured a few times of me not making it to work because I was denied a Skywest jumpseat was going to get the situation cleared up by management one way or another..... but because UAL bought the seat, I figured it was probably going to end badly on the Skywest side.

I hope that this works out with a happy ending for all, as its not lost on me that we are all pilots, and any infighting takes our focus off being united, which is where we really CAN get stuff done.

For a long time I thought our management was really stupid. I learned over the past however many years that they are BRILLIANT when it comes to dividing and conquering, demoralizing, and shrinking. What they aren't so good at is doing the opposite. Maybe its all the years of practice doing the former that makes them so bad at the latter. An example: why, as we approach a JCBA between the pilot groups, would the new UAL management press to test this issue? They have done a GREAT job at strengthening the resolve of the CAL, and frankly the UAL pilots as well to make sure that Scope is the #1 issue for this new contract. The only solution I see is to make sure that we don't sign a new contract that at LEAST phases out the 70 seat flying from the Regional airlines. Putting the 70's in IAH just makes that more clear for everyone and strengthens the resolve. Probably not what management really intended.

As I said, nice post, and thanks for the thoughtful argument.

 

Hayduke,

Good to hear the story behind the story. Thanks for that. Good post, and good points. I've got no beef with the Skywest pilots over the issue. It never really bothered me that much. I'm WELL aware that we have more than our share of BAD APPLES and SCABS, so I'm sure you've had to put up with more of them than I have the occasional less than friendly Skywest guy or gal.

Cheers

 

Fair question, and reasonable point. I did fly for the regionals before going to UAL, though when I was there the largest piece of kit we had was a 30 seat turboprop. I was gone before the RJ's came about.

That doesn't magically cleanse me, nor should it for those of the 1400 pilots that flew for the commuters. As I mentioned in a previous post, and got bashed for, I understand the plight of the commuter pilot. You need the time to get OUT, and if the regionals are hiring and aren't GoJets etc. then you hold your nose and take the plunge. The vast majority of pilots I see at the regionals are in that category. Heck, even though I was flying a 19 seat turboprop at the commuters, I still got grief from the mainline guys at times. I suppose my whole point is that it's just the nature of the beast, and try not to take it personally. I don't ever look down my nose at regional pilots - I was one after all, but it doesn't change the fact that in many cases, our near term interests are diametrically opposed. Hopefully in the future that won't be the case. I wish you guys good luck, and hopefully this thing has a positive resolution for all involved.

 

Well said Rickair and Gettinbumped.

For reference, link to thread about the UAX jumpseat priority dispute:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-8-2008-a.html

 

Thank you for making good, clear, and fair points. I am glad we can have a civil discussion on this board from time to time.

I meant to address your being denied the jumpseat on SKW in my last post, but got all caught up in something entirely different. I very clearly remember the "jumpseat war", if you want to call it that, between UAL and UAX. As I remember it, it was between UAL and all UAX carriers, not just SKW. To resolve the issue, at least partially, SKW printed out a bunch of "jumpseat priority forms" that would override what the computer system said if there ever was a dispute over priority.

I do remember getting a memo that said we should "deny any mainline pilot the jumpseat until their MEC agrees to resolve the issue" or something to that extent. I, as a commuter at the time, did not support the effort one bit. With all the pull I had as an FO (haha), I'd insist to the captain that we always take any jumpseater, mainline or not. Most guys I flew with agreed, and we never left anybody behind. I'm truly sorry that happened to you. Had it been on my flight, I would have done everything in my power, as an FO, to make sure you got on the jumpseat. In my opinion, the jumpseat should NEVER be used as a political tool. Period. If pilots of different airlines want to point fingers, place blame, and argue, thats is fine, although unprofessional. But please don't deny guys the opportunity to get home to their families after a long trip and several night away from home.

To this date, I have never had a problem with a pilot from another airline in person. Most of this is just online chest-thumping, and nothing more. When we have a mainline pilot in our jumpseat, it is just business as usual. Like I said before, I hope that this can remain civil and professional while all of this gets sorted out. In the mean time, I plan to extend every pilot of every airline the common courtesy of a ride home, just as I would a pilot from my own airline. Good luck to all.

 

You can throw in
LAX-SMF
LAX-PHX
LAX-SJC
LAX-DFW
SFO-SAN
SFO-MCI
SFO-SEA
SFO-BUR
and so on. I do think RJ have a small nitche but these routes are not it.

 

GettingBumped,
Its unfortunate guys at skywest threatened you regarding the priority issue. Part of the big problem is that (i'm assuming it was on an rj) most rj captains have made their bed, drank the koolaid, and are not going to leave for a major. Therefore, they have no regard for diplomacy and the risk of burning a bridge because they feel they are on par with the likes of a united or delta. These guys don't commute, have never commuted, and have no sympathy for commuters. If you have problem commuting we do have a js coordinator and if you go to yours i'm sure something can be resolved. But i forgot you guys have a commuter policy which we dont.

 

Well said. I've even encountered some SKW captains that have no regard for our own commuters

Luckily, that attitude (at least in ORD) has all but disappeared as many of the koolaidoholics have kicked the habit over the last 1-2 years.

 

There's been a time or two when i made the numbers work and presented them to the captain but they still decided to leave the commuter behind. Glad to hear ORD is getting better. Out here on the west coast the old skywest culture is well and alive.