View Poll Results: I will vote... (XJ/9E/9L pilots only, please)
For the TA
95
66.43%
Against the TA
35
24.48%
I will not vote
4
2.80%
Undecided
9
6.29%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll
December 9E/XJ/9L TA Poll
12-22-2010 | 10:35 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
Yes, that's what I said. "Over the life of the contract" means when the contract is complete. That would be DOS +5. Show me any other contract where a turboprop is equal in pay to a jet, thus setting it up to pay MORE on the next negotiating cycle. Thinking long term, here, not just "What's gonna be in my pocket this time next year." Technically the guys flying the -900 are doing the same job I am on the -200, but they get paid more. In fact, from what I hear from guys that have flown both, the -900 is less work thanks to the automation.
12-22-2010 | 10:49 AM
#92
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
We as a pilot group should look at the split pay for the saab and ask ourselves is this the type of precedence that we want to set for airlines in the future. The short term everyone is thinking; "oh its ok, I will be out of here in a year or two when the great pilot shortage comes." If the shortage comes or not, I don't know, but I don't want to send the message saying it is ok to have a B pay scale. This has already been tried with TWA and even overseas with Cathay Pacific. We have to stop selling out the junior man just because we get half of a bone right now for immediate gratification.
All of this being known, it still does not seem justified on the labor end of things to pay one guy more than another for essentially the same job. however looking at it from what is possible at the negotiating table, the rates they were able to secure are not bad.
12-22-2010 | 03:43 PM
#93
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Likes: 0
As far as you guys talking about the Q's vs the 200s go. What are the RASMs for each aircraft? The 200 might only carry 50 people but if it's traveling twice as far the RASM might be higher and the CASM might be lower.
Last edited by ToiletDuck; 12-22-2010 at 04:04 PM.
12-22-2010 | 03:53 PM
#94
Doing One Pilot's Job
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,887
Likes: 122
You're right, I don't work there - in the thread I posted where you can find the actual document I posted my thoughts on the TA from the perspective of all three pilots...all three of which were YES.
That said, just because I don't work there doesn't mean I can't see the divisiveness of the pay structure in this TA, set up by management and agreed to by negotiators.
Going into SLI, the pilot groups aren't going to be unified - they're going to be ****ed. Who wins in that situation? Management.
Is it that really that difficult a concept to understand?
That said, just because I don't work there doesn't mean I can't see the divisiveness of the pay structure in this TA, set up by management and agreed to by negotiators.
Going into SLI, the pilot groups aren't going to be unified - they're going to be ****ed. Who wins in that situation? Management.
Is it that really that difficult a concept to understand?
12-22-2010 | 04:42 PM
#97
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Likes: 0
So management hit a home run and you agree with it. Got it. My point was you don't work there and your opinion on what matters might not be the same as someone who's out putting up with the daily grind. Apparently it's gaining traction in all three groups. There's a lot of headway that's been made leading up to it and given fleet projections, ie DAL cancellations of Saabs, in my opinion it's going to be more than some clear victory for management.
12-22-2010 | 04:48 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Yeah, sure, you'd vote no on a contract that gives you (in Mesaba's case) higher pay rates, whipsaw/fragmentation protection, better work rules and benefits all around, job security and an actual chance at an upgrade in two years (verses a possible job loss). I'm sure you would vote no.
12-22-2010 | 05:10 PM
#100
Day puke
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 0
From: Out.
Let's assume the "Grandfather" scale is what Mesaba could have negotiated on its own.
So......
Mesaba CAs have done fine.
And Mesaba FOs have done okay .... UNTIL they upgrade when they revert to the standard rate (my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong).
All others, present and future, will be paid at a rate BELOW current Mesaba rates. That is disappointing.
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