There has been no valid arguement to say why anyone feels it's ok to bastardize one group of pilots for doing the same work on the same equipment.

I have seen all I need to see. But why do you think some pilots deserve more gold than others? Why should a mesaba guys make more for the same work as another guy.
Not to mention the fact that we are supposed to be moving forward in the industry and lowering the pay does nothing to raise the bar!
We vote no then we get mesaba's pay rate anyway. So bye-bye 32 bucks an hour.

Obviously, how can they say it wasn't a win to get a contract signed that didn't pay everyone the same. And payed a 74 seat plane well below industry average.
Fair is fair. Saying we will get 'em next time just isn't the way to do it

 

if the 50seat jets get more pay then the 74 props, and the xj saabs get more pay then the cjc saabs.......cjc get fences for our q's. Thats fair.

 

Having talked with one of the CJC negotiators there are reasons the TA ended up the way it did. (I encourage you to email the JNC as the Exec Summary solicits questions.)

This is not bastardizing the group of CJC pilots. It may appear as such if you open up the payrates section alone, however how would you feel if you were a Mesaba pilot? They are not seeing ANY increase in their pay on the Saab. Our pilots are seeing between anywhere from 1.9% to 23.4% in the payrates alone. The Mesaba rate disappears when a pilot moves from that seat (a Mesaba Saab FO will not upgrade into the grandfathered rate).

This was a move made within hours of striking a TA, and to get the TA passed, the JNC held firm that no one could take a paycut. So to avoid Mesaba CA/FO paycuts on the Saab they made the grandfather rate.

The Q pays at the pretty much the current Horizon rates starting at year 3 and exceeds Horizon by the end of the contract. Horizon rates are most likely to stay the same or go down with their new TA.

If you think we are better off going to Mesaba's contract, you have forgotten about the whipsaw possibility. The biggest part of this entire deal is all the PNCL Corp flying will be done by our integrated seniority list. If we end up as two lists and two contracts (Pinnacle/Mesaba if we assumed the latter's contract) what happens when PT decides he wants to purchase Horizon or Comair?

Let's not $hit ourselves here.

 

We as a pilot group should look at the split pay for the saab and ask ourselves is this the type of precedence that we want to set for airlines in the future. The short term everyone is thinking; "oh its ok, I will be out of here in a year or two when the great pilot shortage comes." If the shortage comes or not, I don't know, but I don't want to send the message saying it is ok to have a B pay scale. This has already been tried with TWA and even overseas with Cathay Pacific. We have to stop selling out the junior man just because we get half of a bone right now for immediate gratification.

 

It's very very far from great but there's a fair chance it's the best we're going to do. sorry if that's too defeatist for you.

 

Way to defeatist. Saying that we deserve to get payed less because we already are getting payed less is what got the airline industry in the position in the first place. And if that argument held ANY water, I would point out that pinnacle pilots were also payed less than mesaba pilots for the same work on the same equipment and are now going to be getting the same. Why isn't that in question? Good for the goose...

And as for getting mesaba's pay anyway if we vote no: If we don't get this contract signed then as of the 12 month anniversary of the merger announcement we are to be taken into mesaba's contract. Therefore we will get their current work rules and pay.

 

There is a misconception that the Q rates are not good.

Should they be more than the CRJ200? Yes.

Has a turboprop ever paid more than a jet? No.

Look at the current Horizon Q rates, and look where the TA has Q rates from DOS+3 and on. Then consider that because Horizon agreed to "baseball style" arbitration, their rates are probably going to stay flat or come down.

 

Again, how familiar are you with MSA's current contract? (Since you want to assume it.)

There is more than just payrates to compare between the two.

 

There are still a whole lot of wins if we get mesaba's contract and my pocket will be a lot heavier. That is the bottom line.

And the argument that props will have never made what a jet makes is an outdated one and needs to just go away. It never has made what a jet makes because of people like you who are resigned to it never making more. Times are changing and the Q is a much more productive airplane then the crj-200 as evidenced by every airline that has 200s slowly(or quickly) removing them from their property or at the very least stopped with the growth. They don't even make them anymore. The Q is where it is at right now for a reason and the 30ish seater will always have a market.

 

I don't think it's impossible for a prop to make more than a jet. But I do think that the task will be much easier when there aren't three negotiating committees trying to blend together 3 cultures to produce a TA that results in gains for every pilot group.