Mesaba's dispute?
05-25-2011 | 08:17 AM
#32
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Ohhh, excuse me, I apologize, you mean the LOA that existed. Well, ok, so that's once in history they were offering a 3-for-1 in seniority for certain aircraft positions. And, to be honest, I think that's BS too. If I was an XJ guy back then, I would have been staunchly against this LOA.
05-25-2011 | 08:32 AM
#33
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Can someone answer this for me: where exactly are the XJ furloughee pilots on a list?
Are they on the Pinnacle list, with their Pinnacle DOH? Or are they on Mesaba's list, all the way at the bottom, listed as furloughees?
This matters. Bloch needs to see. Also, Bloch needs to know (or should know) what the XJ union did in regards to recalling pilots. Either you go back to XJ and regain your original XJ seniority, or decline the recall, stay at Pinnacle, and start with Pinnacle seniority (summer 2010). I've heard they could stay for 60 days, at which, something else needs to be negotiated with the union/company. It's been 60 days, hasn't it? So what is going on? To me, it sounds almost like some furloughees were given advice to just stay put at Pinnacle until the one list. They'd much rather be RJ at DTW than forced LGA SF3, which was what they were being recalled to.
If the XJ pilots stayed at Pinnacle, did not take the recall to Mesaba, or are still waiting in the 60 day timeframe to see what happens, then where are these pilots as far as seniority list goes? Can they appear in two places at once? Once at the bottom of XJs list as furlough, awaiting recall acceptance, and once again at Pinnacle list, as a summer 2010 hire with Mesaba longevity?
I bet our union didn't forecast this when they opened the arms of grace for that MOU.
Are they on the Pinnacle list, with their Pinnacle DOH? Or are they on Mesaba's list, all the way at the bottom, listed as furloughees?
This matters. Bloch needs to see. Also, Bloch needs to know (or should know) what the XJ union did in regards to recalling pilots. Either you go back to XJ and regain your original XJ seniority, or decline the recall, stay at Pinnacle, and start with Pinnacle seniority (summer 2010). I've heard they could stay for 60 days, at which, something else needs to be negotiated with the union/company. It's been 60 days, hasn't it? So what is going on? To me, it sounds almost like some furloughees were given advice to just stay put at Pinnacle until the one list. They'd much rather be RJ at DTW than forced LGA SF3, which was what they were being recalled to.
If the XJ pilots stayed at Pinnacle, did not take the recall to Mesaba, or are still waiting in the 60 day timeframe to see what happens, then where are these pilots as far as seniority list goes? Can they appear in two places at once? Once at the bottom of XJs list as furlough, awaiting recall acceptance, and once again at Pinnacle list, as a summer 2010 hire with Mesaba longevity?
I bet our union didn't forecast this when they opened the arms of grace for that MOU.
05-25-2011 | 08:36 AM
#34
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From: Up Front
Can someone answer this for me: where exactly are the XJ furloughee pilots on a list?
Are they on the Pinnacle list, with their Pinnacle DOH? Or are they on Mesaba's list, all the way at the bottom, listed as furloughees?
This matters. Bloch needs to see. Also, Bloch needs to know (or should know) what the XJ union did in regards to recalling pilots. Either you go back to XJ and regain your original XJ seniority, or decline the recall, stay at Pinnacle, and start with Pinnacle seniority (summer 2010). I've heard they could stay for 60 days, at which, something else needs to be negotiated with the union/company. It's been 60 days, hasn't it? So what is going on? To me, it sounds almost like some furloughees were given advice to just stay put at Pinnacle until the one list. They'd much rather be RJ at DTW than forced LGA SF3, which was what they were being recalled to.
If the XJ pilots stayed at Pinnacle, did not take the recall to Mesaba, or are still waiting in the 60 day timeframe to see what happens, then where are these pilots as far as seniority list goes? Can they appear in two places at once? Once at the bottom of XJs list as furlough, awaiting recall acceptance, and once again at Pinnacle list, as a summer 2010 hire with Mesaba longevity?
I bet our union didn't forecast this when they opened the arms of grace for that MOU.
Are they on the Pinnacle list, with their Pinnacle DOH? Or are they on Mesaba's list, all the way at the bottom, listed as furloughees?
This matters. Bloch needs to see. Also, Bloch needs to know (or should know) what the XJ union did in regards to recalling pilots. Either you go back to XJ and regain your original XJ seniority, or decline the recall, stay at Pinnacle, and start with Pinnacle seniority (summer 2010). I've heard they could stay for 60 days, at which, something else needs to be negotiated with the union/company. It's been 60 days, hasn't it? So what is going on? To me, it sounds almost like some furloughees were given advice to just stay put at Pinnacle until the one list. They'd much rather be RJ at DTW than forced LGA SF3, which was what they were being recalled to.
If the XJ pilots stayed at Pinnacle, did not take the recall to Mesaba, or are still waiting in the 60 day timeframe to see what happens, then where are these pilots as far as seniority list goes? Can they appear in two places at once? Once at the bottom of XJs list as furlough, awaiting recall acceptance, and once again at Pinnacle list, as a summer 2010 hire with Mesaba longevity?
I bet our union didn't forecast this when they opened the arms of grace for that MOU.
05-25-2011 | 08:38 AM
#35
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That's not the point. But depending on where they are *supposed* to be on the Pinnacle list or the Mesaba list, it makes a difference.
The protocol agreement already states that pilots hired after July 1 2010 at XJ/9E/9L will be ordered in DOH, below everybody else (before July 1) who will be on the ISL. Essentially, those hired after July 1 are being 'stapled' under everybody else, rightfully so because that's where they were before the merger announcement, and everyone above them is senior anyway. But I raise a good point. Where should those XJ pilots fall, now considering they had their chance to go back, and clearly, many have not. We're getting into very slippery ground here. If they didn't chose to accept recall and go back, then our updated seniority list would indicate their DOH as being whatever Summer 2010 (July, august, etc). So, they could wind up on the bottom of the list. That is why we need clarification of where they stand. If you chose to wait 60 days, then the union / company needed to come up with some agreement for these pilots to extend them their longevity credit courtesy. But nothing like that has happened. If you're a XJ furloughee, you're in a bad place to be. You've been made pawns in this game (but then again, so are the rest of us, but you are the sacrificial pawns that are moved first to be killed).
The protocol agreement already states that pilots hired after July 1 2010 at XJ/9E/9L will be ordered in DOH, below everybody else (before July 1) who will be on the ISL. Essentially, those hired after July 1 are being 'stapled' under everybody else, rightfully so because that's where they were before the merger announcement, and everyone above them is senior anyway. But I raise a good point. Where should those XJ pilots fall, now considering they had their chance to go back, and clearly, many have not. We're getting into very slippery ground here. If they didn't chose to accept recall and go back, then our updated seniority list would indicate their DOH as being whatever Summer 2010 (July, august, etc). So, they could wind up on the bottom of the list. That is why we need clarification of where they stand. If you chose to wait 60 days, then the union / company needed to come up with some agreement for these pilots to extend them their longevity credit courtesy. But nothing like that has happened. If you're a XJ furloughee, you're in a bad place to be. You've been made pawns in this game (but then again, so are the rest of us, but you are the sacrificial pawns that are moved first to be killed).
05-25-2011 | 08:53 AM
#37
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From: Up Front
That's not the point. But depending on where they are *supposed* to be on the Pinnacle list or the Mesaba list, it makes a difference.
The protocol agreement already states that pilots hired after July 1 2010 at XJ/9E/9L will be ordered in DOH, below everybody else (before July 1) who will be on the ISL. Essentially, those hired after July 1 are being 'stapled' under everybody else, rightfully so because that's where they were before the merger announcement, and everyone above them is senior anyway. But I raise a good point. Where should those XJ pilots fall, now considering they had their chance to go back, and clearly, many have not. We're getting into very slippery ground here. If they didn't chose to accept recall and go back, then our updated seniority list would indicate their DOH as being whatever Summer 2010 (July, august, etc). So, they could wind up on the bottom of the list. That is why we need clarification of where they stand. If you chose to wait 60 days, then the union / company needed to come up with some agreement for these pilots to extend them their longevity credit courtesy. But nothing like that has happened. If you're a XJ furloughee, you're in a bad place to be. You've been made pawns in this game (but then again, so are the rest of us, but you are the sacrificial pawns that are moved first to be killed).
The protocol agreement already states that pilots hired after July 1 2010 at XJ/9E/9L will be ordered in DOH, below everybody else (before July 1) who will be on the ISL. Essentially, those hired after July 1 are being 'stapled' under everybody else, rightfully so because that's where they were before the merger announcement, and everyone above them is senior anyway. But I raise a good point. Where should those XJ pilots fall, now considering they had their chance to go back, and clearly, many have not. We're getting into very slippery ground here. If they didn't chose to accept recall and go back, then our updated seniority list would indicate their DOH as being whatever Summer 2010 (July, august, etc). So, they could wind up on the bottom of the list. That is why we need clarification of where they stand. If you chose to wait 60 days, then the union / company needed to come up with some agreement for these pilots to extend them their longevity credit courtesy. But nothing like that has happened. If you're a XJ furloughee, you're in a bad place to be. You've been made pawns in this game (but then again, so are the rest of us, but you are the sacrificial pawns that are moved first to be killed).
If they come back with XJ DOH and keep their longevity for the time they are at 9E, then some will be senior to you, or you wouldn't be crying so much over the furloughs.
That's the deal they were given, get over it.
Our guys are probably just making sure the furloughs are being given the proper treatment as they should.
05-25-2011 | 08:53 AM
#38
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Shyguy - I don't know of ANY XJ pilots that didn't take the recall.
I am amazed that you have so much hatred toward fellow pilots who have done nothing wrong to you.
Also, I'm amazed at your lack of knowledge about the whole situation but you seem to think you have it all figured out. Amazing.
You are a disgrace to Pinnacle and ALPA.
I am amazed that you have so much hatred toward fellow pilots who have done nothing wrong to you.
Also, I'm amazed at your lack of knowledge about the whole situation but you seem to think you have it all figured out. Amazing.
You are a disgrace to Pinnacle and ALPA.
05-25-2011 | 08:57 AM
#39
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From: CL-65 captain
whenever you talk about anything 9e on this forum you make yourself look really ignorant.....that's what's lame. Send me your resume and I'd be happy to get you hired at 9e so you can see what it's like here. Until you have experienced it, go play in your own sandbox and keep your (totally irrational) opinions to yourself...
05-25-2011 | 09:04 AM
#40
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Been at Delta less than a year and already think you know everything. Or is it because you are XJ flowthru and just hate 9e because of that and can't wait to get in any cheap shot? God help any DL Captain that flies with you
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