You call it snobbery. I call it paying the bills.

You're right. It's absurd to expect an airline pilot to hold an Airline Transport pilot rating.

Okay, allow me to correct myself, if the CA (or PF at the time) had been hired into the 121 world with more than 360 hours then I wonder if the outcome would of been different. I think that is a fair question.

Also, if you are going to preach to others about doing research then take the time to do your own research. At issue, according to the NTSB, were the flight crew’s failure to monitor airspeed in relation to the rising position of the lowspeed cue, the flight crew’s failure to adhere to sterile cockpit procedures, the captain’s failure to effectively manage the flight, and Colgan’s inadequate procedures for airspeed selection and management during approaches in icing conditions. The aforementioned causes were attributed to flight crew monitoring failures, pilot professionalism, fatigue, remedial training, pilot training records, airspeed selection procedures, stall training, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) oversight, flight operational quality assurance programs, use of personal portable electronic devices on the flight deck, the FAA’s use of safety alerts for operators to transmit safety-critical information, and weather information provided to pilots. I think you are over simplifying by just saying it was fatigue and training

Haha that's not what I meant. It's not just the rj course, it's the whole package, you take a lot more advance courses if you stay in the airline concentration. A lot more challenging and actually learn interesting stuff. I dont know about the stick and rudder skills but knowledge wise, yes it makes you a better pilot. Now if you want to talk about how expensive it is, I'm with you 100%. So many cheaper ways to get in this industry. And 80% guys in school didn't help.

I keep seeing people say that hours don't necessarily equal experience. They keep saying that 1000 hours is better than 1 hour 1000 times. So therefore the time requirement is meaningless.

It's not a time requirement. It's a requirement to have an ATP. The very fact that someone has an ATP means that they dont just have 1500 hours beating up the pattern in a 152.

1500TT
500 Cross Country
100 Night
75 Instrument
250 PIC including:
100 XC PIC
25 hours night PIC
Not to mention a written test and a demanding practical test which is the highest level of certification available from the FAA. It's no guarantee that someone with an ATP wouldn't make mistakes but I would say it's a pretty good bet that having two people with that certification in the cockpit would improve safety.

Full Disclosure: I exceeded those requirements before getting hired but don't have an ATP. If I were looking for a job now I would get it myself.

Just wondering what the military folks out there think of the 1500 rule? Many of them are far below 1500 hours when they get thrown into a cockpit of an aircraft much more complex than what 121 operations use. Quality of training over quantity, just a thought though.

I don't have a problem with it and I came from a community where a pilot who gets out at their chance might not have reached 1,500 TT. As far as training, there is a large difference in what a civilian trained pilot has done in their 300 hours let's say than what a military trained pilot has done in that same amount of time. I agree with those who tout the quality of time over quality, BUT numbers and minimums have to be set somewhere. For those that don't like 1,500, they may suggest 1,000 TT, but many would argue that too.

USMCFLYR

Actually this mentality is a lot of what is wrong with the airlines. The mentality is that "if i have a certain amount of flight time, or a certain training in a special course or simulator, I am a better pilot." The truth is that what makes a good pilot is simply decision making ability. Can you run through the problem and make a sound decision on what action to make based on your knowledge? I actually switched majors when at Riddle to avoid the "Riddle Mindset."

At schools like ERAU, it seems they want robots. Here is your training... do this if this happens... If X then Y mentality. As an instructor, the worst students I had for figuring out what to do when there wasnt a procedure in writing were Riddle guys. I am sure the alumni association hates me now for saying that.

In the end what makes for a safer airline is a program which identifies a pilots ability to think outside the box with a solid knowledge of aerodynamics, stick and rudder skills, and aircraft systems. I call it the Apollo 13 skill. This isnt something that is "hour" dependent. I have flown with 100 hour Pilots who already had the skill, and I have flown in the right seat with guys who spent years in a regional to be captain of a small plane who cant go pee without written instructions.

Well put man. To add to your comment. People are getting so short sighted. It's this instant gratification. I want it and need it now. If it weren't for that, people would see the good in this whole thing. I myself don't want to die, or leave behind a horrible life having killed an airplane full of people.

It's not just tooling around getting 1500hrs to obtain an ATP. It's the level of maturity you get to while doing so. It's not a perfect system or idea, but the best one yet. Since we as humans aren't responsible enough to admit when we aren't fit for the job, unfortunately the gov. has to. Never pretty but we as pilots have lowered the bar to a new low and now need someone to hold our hand. Pretty sad, but it may help until people start doing the right thing one day again.

The pilots in the colgan crash may have benefited from this rule. Sure, the F.O. flight instructed for a bit. But it was the Captain that really screwed the pooch. And he was HIRED with low time. Had he had to obtain an ATP BEFORE getting hired, he probably would have washed out. We all know the type. Should have never become a pilot. Just my opinion.

My opinion continues with the ATP. Just because someone can pass a few maneuvers to perfection and take a written exam for the FAA doesnt make them a better pilot. It simply shows they can read a book and jump through some hoops. The ATP test should be a test in Problem Resoultion with a crew at your disposal. At risk of sounding like a real geek, it should be a "kobayashi maru" kind of exam.