ASA to lose 8 CRJ700's
08-24-2011 | 01:38 PM
#81
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Earlier I responded to the idea of replacing RJs with mainline thinking it was a multiple leg flights to the hub, I misread what I quoted. Replacing 3 CRJ-200s with 1 MD88 would not work.
But I like the idea of increasing flying on the mainline side by going point-to-point-to-hub. You don't really kill the frequency doing that you just extend one groups flight time and you free up gates and air traffic doing it. And gates in ATL have become an issue since winglets forced some gates to get too wide to be safe from paint swaps.
I know ALPA National wouldn't go for it because its 2 pilots instead of 4. But, if it causes a scope recapture, maybe it's worth it? But we also don't have the efficiencies that say an ASA pilot group has. Someone told me you guys run 21 hour 3-days, we run 15. Sometimes 11 on the 757/737. So if we took 100% of ASA's flying for instance maybe we'd need every ASA pilot plus another 60% or something. I don't know, depends on if I'm dividing this all out correctly. But hey, let's go with my math, it's favorable.
----
Now you said how do mainline guys feel about flying RJ's?
But I like the idea of increasing flying on the mainline side by going point-to-point-to-hub. You don't really kill the frequency doing that you just extend one groups flight time and you free up gates and air traffic doing it. And gates in ATL have become an issue since winglets forced some gates to get too wide to be safe from paint swaps.
But, look at GSP-ATL and GSO-ATL for example. Each has 10 flights a day and I thought GSO-ATL was all CRJ200s but it turns out its a mix of 200s, 700s, 900s, 9s and 88s. Same with GSP.
Now GSP-ATL offers 777 seats a day and GSO-ATL 992. So say that's what the airline wants to keep in terms of seat inventory but the question becomes cost and frequency.
I'd be curious to know what the total cost would be if you replaced 8 of those direct flights from both cities with a GSO-GSP-ATL MD88 flight and kept 2 flights at each as direct MD88 flights?
With that you'll end up offering 1788 seats instead of 1769 per day, so inventory is a near wash but it's all mainline large aircraft (yes I know some like smaller aircraft with valet baggage) but surely total costs are less when you consider everything that goes into multiple DCI contracts, gates, two crews instead of one and so on.
I wonder if that would work?Now GSP-ATL offers 777 seats a day and GSO-ATL 992. So say that's what the airline wants to keep in terms of seat inventory but the question becomes cost and frequency.
I'd be curious to know what the total cost would be if you replaced 8 of those direct flights from both cities with a GSO-GSP-ATL MD88 flight and kept 2 flights at each as direct MD88 flights?
With that you'll end up offering 1788 seats instead of 1769 per day, so inventory is a near wash but it's all mainline large aircraft (yes I know some like smaller aircraft with valet baggage) but surely total costs are less when you consider everything that goes into multiple DCI contracts, gates, two crews instead of one and so on.
I know ALPA National wouldn't go for it because its 2 pilots instead of 4. But, if it causes a scope recapture, maybe it's worth it? But we also don't have the efficiencies that say an ASA pilot group has. Someone told me you guys run 21 hour 3-days, we run 15. Sometimes 11 on the 757/737. So if we took 100% of ASA's flying for instance maybe we'd need every ASA pilot plus another 60% or something. I don't know, depends on if I'm dividing this all out correctly. But hey, let's go with my math, it's favorable.
You could also do direct flights and replace 10 flights out of GSP with 5 to 6 MD-88 runs and do the same in GSO with 6 to 7 MD88 runs. Add one to two flights each if you use only DC95s and 717s. It's not a big loss in frequency per se.
The paper is free, so it's fun to guess but that's my 2 cents. ----
Now you said how do mainline guys feel about flying RJ's?
Well, I'd say most RJ pilots now at mainline are all for it. The rest of the group, who knows, and the problem is we may or may not ever find out because it may never make its way to us to vote on. There are a lot of surprisingly very vocal people from different parts of the seniority list, that's a good start.
Let's hope for some unplanned reason the DALPA C2012 survey gets published for all of us to really see where DAL pilots stand. It'd be so interesting to see. But here's top hoping they want to recapture and hire like mad and end whipsawing.
And here's to hoping if anyone stands in the way... ALPA National... they get to feel what a whipsaw feels like via the DPA. It's just business, nothing personal.
Let's hope for some unplanned reason the DALPA C2012 survey gets published for all of us to really see where DAL pilots stand. It'd be so interesting to see. But here's top hoping they want to recapture and hire like mad and end whipsawing.
And here's to hoping if anyone stands in the way... ALPA National... they get to feel what a whipsaw feels like via the DPA. It's just business, nothing personal.
08-24-2011 | 01:45 PM
#82
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Joined: Jan 2008
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That is a myth created by the codeshare pilots to justify their existence. The mainline pilots would happily fly the RJ's. The only problem was we wanted to keep retirement and benefits. The company didn't and they had a bunch of willing volunteers to limbo under the fence to get the shiny jets flown for pennies compared the mainline.
The guys were all proud to be Jet pilots but they didn't realize there was someone willing to do it for less than them and then another one willing to do it for even greater discount. The cycles is sickening. Put those jets at the mainline where they belong.
L
The guys were all proud to be Jet pilots but they didn't realize there was someone willing to do it for less than them and then another one willing to do it for even greater discount. The cycles is sickening. Put those jets at the mainline where they belong.
L
You can make whatever excuses or jusifications you might like but the truth of the matter is that regional pilots can't do anything to affect the situation. We don't control scope. Tell me the other option for a regional pilot? Not show up for work? As a show of solidarity move for mainline? And what would that get the regional pilot besides fired? Nothing. This would not cause a recapture of scope. The scope battle will be fought on the mainline level. If you're annoyed with the existance of regional pilots, fine, go get your mainline breathren fired up to recapture scope but telling a bunch of regional guys that we're the problem is asinine.
08-24-2011 | 02:05 PM
#83
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 110
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That is a myth created by the codeshare pilots to justify their existence. The mainline pilots would happily fly the RJ's. The only problem was we wanted to keep retirement and benefits. The company didn't and they had a bunch of willing volunteers to limbo under the fence to get the shiny jets flown for pennies compared the mainline.
The guys were all proud to be Jet pilots but they didn't realize there was someone willing to do it for less than them and then another one willing to do it for even greater discount. The cycles is sickening. Put those jets at the mainline where they belong.
L
The guys were all proud to be Jet pilots but they didn't realize there was someone willing to do it for less than them and then another one willing to do it for even greater discount. The cycles is sickening. Put those jets at the mainline where they belong.
L
Last edited by pullforexit; 08-24-2011 at 02:06 PM. Reason: added a comma
08-24-2011 | 02:59 PM
#84
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 18
That is a myth created by the codeshare pilots to justify their existence. The mainline pilots would happily fly the RJ's. The only problem was we wanted to keep retirement and benefits. The company didn't and they had a bunch of willing volunteers to limbo under the fence to get the shiny jets flown for pennies compared the mainline.
The guys were all proud to be Jet pilots but they didn't realize there was someone willing to do it for less than them and then another one willing to do it for even greater discount. The cycles is sickening. Put those jets at the mainline where they belong.
L
The guys were all proud to be Jet pilots but they didn't realize there was someone willing to do it for less than them and then another one willing to do it for even greater discount. The cycles is sickening. Put those jets at the mainline where they belong.
L
08-24-2011 | 03:35 PM
#85
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Is anyone else getting the feeling that the asa/expressjet negotiations are going to take a major hit because of this news?? I think its going to be very difficult for the pilot group (especially the express guys)...to be in a position to demand much in negotiations.
Call it what you want...drinkn the kool aid...whatever. But the recent alpa email does have a point. Being a quality product is very important right now. Personally, I think that some of our pilots need to wake up and start giving a crap about their job. The lack of professionalism and doing the bare minimum is starting to get on my nerves........
Sorry....have to vent sometimes...
Side note, i believe the memo mentioned aircraft on the expressjet side may be going away aswell......
Call it what you want...drinkn the kool aid...whatever. But the recent alpa email does have a point. Being a quality product is very important right now. Personally, I think that some of our pilots need to wake up and start giving a crap about their job. The lack of professionalism and doing the bare minimum is starting to get on my nerves........
Sorry....have to vent sometimes...
Side note, i believe the memo mentioned aircraft on the expressjet side may be going away aswell......
08-24-2011 | 04:11 PM
#86
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Some Hotel
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the asa/expressjet negotiations are going to take a major hit because of this news?? I think its going to be very difficult for the pilot group (especially the express guys)...to be in a position to demand much in negotiations.
Call it what you want...drinkn the kool aid...whatever. But the recent alpa email does have a point. Being a quality product is very important right now. Personally, I think that some of our pilots need to wake up and start giving a crap about their job. The lack of professionalism and doing the bare minimum is starting to get on my nerves........
Sorry....have to vent sometimes...
Side note, i believe the memo mentioned aircraft on the expressjet side may be going away aswell......
Call it what you want...drinkn the kool aid...whatever. But the recent alpa email does have a point. Being a quality product is very important right now. Personally, I think that some of our pilots need to wake up and start giving a crap about their job. The lack of professionalism and doing the bare minimum is starting to get on my nerves........
Sorry....have to vent sometimes...
Side note, i believe the memo mentioned aircraft on the expressjet side may be going away aswell......
There are people out there and I have flown with many that do care and do their best. I do everything that I can do get the pax from point A to B safely and on time. I do help clean the cabin, cross seats belts and assist passengers if needed and make sure we run on time, so I can get to my overnight like the rest of my crewmembers, but the problem is the COMPANY and not giving me enough resources to make this happen sometimes. You can complain, send reports, emails to the company and it's always the standard BS answer.
I truly believe they are so focused on getting this SOC completed by years end, that everything else is just being ignored or put on hold. That's where middle mgmt should come in, but they are all a bunch of morons unfortunately. Now, our performance numbers are in the toilet again...
08-24-2011 | 04:42 PM
#87
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From: Furlough/Gun Driver
50 x 3 = 150, 70 x 2 = 140, that should fill a 737 or 320 just fine.Someone should let SOUTHWEST know that they can't possibly make any money without a bunch of 50 seaters.
08-24-2011 | 05:41 PM
#88
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Again, your missing the point. Im not trying to talk down to you...im just saying. SOUTHWEST is not in the same business as the mainline guys. SOUTHWEST doesnt serve the small markets mentioned before, the same markets that feed the bigger guys to fly overseas...transcon...etc. And again, if you want to get rid of the smaller markets...fine. But if you want to keep them....i think there is always going to be some sort of feeder support for it. Just my two cents...
08-24-2011 | 05:48 PM
#89
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: CRJ200 Capt.
You do realize that Southwest is a different animal than DAL/UAL/AMR don't you? They don't rely on hub feed as much and don't really have hubs...They are more of an O&D carrier that only goes to mid to large US cities....You can fly SWA from Fargo to Rome can you?
08-24-2011 | 05:51 PM
#90
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Are you flyin that longbow? if you are....u got a better job than any of us anywhooo!
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