The "negotiating" only appeared to be negotiating until BB got what he wanted out of his new play toy..... MKE base, LOA 67, concessions, etc. Once he got that he could care less what happens and now you have a spin off because he still can't make it work... Look at the creative ways to spin the $s to make the turd look like a Baby Ruth bar. You can claim separation is happening but it won 't affect the IMSL. It's the only SL that exists. BB doesn't need anything from us but to find ways of dragging things out to keep his costs down. It's no wonder he doesn't talk to the IBT. He doesn't want anything to change from 2003. He||, he even said he would show up to negotiations and then skipped out and claimed what he said was misunderstood... you guys really need to open your eyes and find things out for yourself. Attend a union meeting because after all, they are your union too.

 

It's no wonder, but it's because IBT doesn't negotiate.

 

So BB doesnt negotiate because the IBT doesn't negotiate? Flawless logic there. No pay raise is not a offer you can negotiate off of. It is the current contract. At least the IBT put something on the table that is a starting point.

And you thing BB negotiated with FAPA? You took concessions and all you got in return was the promise of future perks. Good luck with that when you are sold down the river by BB.

But hey, you apparently know BB better than everyone that has been dealing with his double talk for 10 years.

 

It's not logic, it's definition:

Negotiate: Try to reach an agreement or compromise by discussion with others

Compromise: a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

FAPA negotiated with RAH. IBT apparently refuses to (I think the line that they toe is "give us what we want or we'll strike".)


...and we still have jobs. Additionally, we turned a profit last quarter, which demonstrably wouldn't have happened with the old cost structure. My job is basically the same as it was 4 years ago, which is 99% better than what I expected back then.

Incidentally, at least I have the pay concessions as a reason for making more than USAir and United, but less than Delta and American (actually, that would be the same without concessions). What is your explanation for your FO's making $37 an hour? If I recall correctly, I think it was promise of future perks (quick upgrade).

 

Actually, let me retract that. You had no promises in return for that pay rate.

 

ATC, Funny (not in a ha-ha kind of way) to see you back.

SWA - You have NO idea what you're talking about, just stop. You're SO wrong on this whole matter that it's just silly.

SLI - The first 747, Trusteeship proposal had 1300 of the RAH pilots at the top of the list. The Merger Committee mismanaged the process as poorly as they are mismanaging Negotiations. Of course it's the same team from the SLI that is doing the Negotiations. You don't know what you're talking about.

Court - You heard FAPA was getting its clock cleaned from whom? Surely not CM? At this point CM has zero credibility on anything.

FAPA is not getting its clocks cleaned. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about, you're just repeating really bad information gained from a source that talks in false expectations and false bravado.

That's 0-3 in one post.

 

I'm sorry to be redundant.

"The initial contract was done under an old leadership of the Airline Division and Local 747 and was a disgrace. That's why Local 747 no longer exists and there is new leadership in the Airline Division."

You don't know what you're talking about. You have the same Negotiating Chair as you did "under an old leadership of the Airline Division and Local 747 and was a disgrace"

You have 2 of the three members on the NC as you did on the SLI and the same Attorney.

"...leadership that won't let them (FAPA) steamroll the other pilot groups..." You don't know what you're talking about. FAPA has tried to steamroll NO ONE. Give me one example, NOT LOA 67 or FAPAInvest.

"...they got sued and will probably lose their backsides on it." I believe I've made myself clear on this. You are repeating incorrect information from an extremely questionable source, You don't know what you're talking about.

That's 0-3 two times in a row. Are you going to be like the Korean Fencer and just sit on your "position" until Security escorts you off the piste in tears?

 

I have never heard a single F9 pilot complain that your rates are "bringing the industry down." Personally I feel each pilot and pilot group ultimately works for what he or she is happy with.

I made a pledge to myself years ago that I would not allow my happiness, my sense of pride in my job or my sense of self-worth dependent upon what others made.

You don't have to look far to see someone that has done better than you, but you also don't have to look far to see MANY people (not just pilots) that have done MUCH worse.

That was when I made $200,000 less than the guy on the "B" concourse doing the same job in the same plane. That's changed a bit over the years, but I'm still happy.

I don't have to lead the industry and the industry can kiss my bottom if they are not happy with my pay.

When airlines go under or merge, it's every man for themselves. That's been proven over and over. There are older examples and more recent examples, but the way the United pilots treated the pilots of the old Frontier is as good as of an example as I can think of, and they were both ALPA.

TWA & AMR, NWA & old Republic, AWA & US Airways, when the fecal matter hits the fan no one cares about the opposing pilots or their rates of pay, unless it means a raise for one of the groups.

To the contrary, 357 and IBT has moaned and complained about the current F9 pilots agreeing to concessions while 357 is in negotiations and "bringing the industry down."

F9, then FAPA, pilots were free to strike any deal they felt would benefit them most. That theory kept the F9 pilots out of an 1113 process. We gave up money but not a SINGLE work rule. Money is a lot easier to get back than a work rule change.

So, RAH pilots are angry that FAPA gave concessions, but our work rules are indescribably better. 357 lords their Scope clause and lack of Junior Manning over the FAPA contract.

If their Scope clause was so good, why was Scope the first thing 357 pursued in the 4 Article, Section 6 negotiations?

Do any of the RAH pilots know what JA pays? Especially if you're already over 82 hours? And, as APA put out years ago, JA is a pilot IQ test. If you don't want to fly, don't answer the phone. They can only JA you through positive phone contact. Not ACARS, not the Gate Agent or whatever, only positive phone contact. AND, we can turn it down under the proper presentation of circumstances.

Junior Manning at F9 is a GOOD thing not a bad thing.

Back to the original issue. we don't care what your pay rates are. We all believe you need more, especially the FO's. You need trip and duty rigs, you need cancellation pay, you need a lot of things - but not for the F9 pilots, for yourselves.

It's only fair and even the most anti-357 pilot would agree, when faced with the facts that RAH Management has mishandled your contract and your negotiations. 357 has not done a lot to help themselves either.

I really mean this, good luck on August 24, I'm impressed you got back to the Mediation table so quickly.

 

Hate to be doom and gloom but I don't really see the negotiations going anywhere (hope I'm wrong). The latest word from the NMB is reenforcement that it's unlikely we'll get released to strike, at least anytime soon.

IMHO, the way the Rev and WH are playing this is they'll keep the contract as long as they can, because they're saving money hand over fist with the below industry standards we are working under now.

I think the only thing that gets us a new contract is a mainline partner (probably AA) telling BB he has to get his labor relations straightened out before any new flying is awarded.

I'm not counting on the RLA/NMB for anything. I think a strike release, unfortunately, is a long way away.

 

On the topic of JA's, I can't even get any VJA's because the senior pilots are taking them. That's how bad the JA situation is over here. Also, for the record, I've turned down 2 JA's in my time here, and never heard a word about it from management (other than the memo from the CP that was put out in the Junes of 2010 and 2011 which said "don't answer the phone if you don't want to be JA'd").