Delta to Pinnacle: Concessions or shutdown
12-06-2012 | 05:46 PM
#221
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
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The pilots of Pinnacle have one advantage. You have the Delta play book that has already been written and used on Comair. Please listen to my fellow former Comair pilots on here. They have all written excellent advice.
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
12-07-2012 | 04:29 AM
#223
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Joined: May 2010
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The problem is the mainlines aren't growing, they have been shrinking for over 10 years. Any grounds made with retirements of pilots has been cancelled out with retirements of airplanes. This trend appears not to be ending either.
So for your example, the 2 Chineese sweatshops were closed, and replaced with 1 shiny new factory in India. Big whoop.
So for your example, the 2 Chineese sweatshops were closed, and replaced with 1 shiny new factory in India. Big whoop.
Delta system ASMs are being held constant, what is changing is that regional ASMs are decreasing while mainline ASMs are increasing. At worst the fleet size stays the same, but mainline at Delta certainly isn't shrinking.
There will be so much movement mainline in up coming years that'll be impossible to retire aircraft to match retirements unless the legacies want to cede more market share to LCCs. They have their financial houses mostly in order, and Delta in particular is firing on all cylinders. They won't be shrinking much if anymore baring any 9/11 type event, but something like that would ruin the whole industry.
What is happening to DCI and soon to happen elsewhere is great news for long term career progression. Things could be a lot worse. We could have you guys arguing over who is going to be flying E-190s and C-Series for mainline.
Hopefully the scope line is continually held and regionals keep shrinking.
12-07-2012 | 04:58 AM
#224
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 333
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From: 320A
[QUOTE=PurdueFlyer;1306802
Delta system ASMs are being held constant, what is changing is that regional ASMs are decreasing while mainline ASMs are increasing. At worst the fleet size stays the same, but mainline at Delta certainly isn't shrinking. [/quote]
Not shrinking?Looking at number of pilots each month how do you support this statement?
Delta system ASMs are being held constant, what is changing is that regional ASMs are decreasing while mainline ASMs are increasing. At worst the fleet size stays the same, but mainline at Delta certainly isn't shrinking. [/quote]
Not shrinking?Looking at number of pilots each month how do you support this statement?
Last edited by johnso29; 12-07-2012 at 05:43 AM.
12-07-2012 | 05:18 AM
#225
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Joined: May 2010
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Far better than Delta buying 70 CRJ-900s or worse 70 C-Series and replacing DC-9s with those instead of B717s
Last edited by johnso29; 12-07-2012 at 05:44 AM.
12-07-2012 | 05:52 AM
#226
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: I'm Buying
The pilots of Pinnacle have one advantage. You have the Delta play book that has already been written and used on Comair. Please listen to my fellow former Comair pilots on here. They have all written excellent advice.
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
12-07-2012 | 06:04 AM
#227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: I'm Buying
The pilots of Pinnacle have one advantage. You have the Delta play book that has already been written and used on Comair. Please listen to my fellow former Comair pilots on here. They have all written excellent advice.
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
I agree with you, it wasn't Colgan. In fact, it wasn't any pilot's fault in any of the three airlines. Phil was trying to make Pinnacle less dependant on Northwest, and now Delta. And He and Starky made some bad business decisions. I feel the blame extends beyond Pinnacle management. For example: why did Delta sell Pinnacle Mesaba when Colgan and the Pinnacle 900's were loosing money? Especially since the 200's and Saabs had targets on them. We will never know all the metrics involved, but all of this whichever way it goes now will benifit Delta. Either they get to park all their 200's from one carrier, or they get to set a new low for future whipsawing who's left. It will be a win win regardles. Lets face it, they are shrewder at Delta than Phil and the gang, and they always get what they want. Has anyone ever wondered why het got such a huge severence?
The worst mistake was 9E buying mesaba. United was willing to pay more for the 9L flying during negotiations but DL said no as a condition of DIP financing. Delta hates senior regional pilots, and they were desperate to offload XJ. If Phil could have a do-over, Delta should have quickly liquidated XJ and transferred the airframes to Pinnacle. Instead, Pinnacle will liquidate and offload airframes to someone else.
The worst mistake Pinnacle Corp made was negotiating a contract with turboprops losing money ("Yes, we lose $100 per leg, but we make it up in volume").
With our current contract, we make what, maybe $2 per hour more than the average DCI contract? Pilots and unions are not the problem: boneheads with MBAs ARE the problem.
With our current contract, we make what, maybe $2 per hour more than the average DCI contract? Pilots and unions are not the problem: boneheads with MBAs ARE the problem.
The problem is the mainlines aren't growing, they have been shrinking for over 10 years. Any grounds made with retirements of pilots has been cancelled out with retirements of airplanes. This trend appears not to be ending either.
So for your example, the 2 Chineese sweatshops were closed, and replaced with 1 shiny new factory in India. Big whoop.
So for your example, the 2 Chineese sweatshops were closed, and replaced with 1 shiny new factory in India. Big whoop.
This is why CA Sulley was on CNN, did a pretty good job to in my opinion.
12-07-2012 | 06:14 AM
#228
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 328
No at worst it's the Chinese sweat shop shuts down and the American factory workers keep their jobs but will soon need to replace most of their retiring work force.
Delta system ASMs are being held constant, what is changing is that regional ASMs are decreasing while mainline ASMs are increasing. At worst the fleet size stays the same, but mainline at Delta certainly isn't shrinking.
There will be so much movement mainline in up coming years that'll be impossible to retire aircraft to match retirements unless the legacies want to cede more market share to LCCs. They have their financial houses mostly in order, and Delta in particular is firing on all cylinders. They won't be shrinking much if anymore baring any 9/11 type event, but something like that would ruin the whole industry.
What is happening to DCI and soon to happen elsewhere is great news for long term career progression. Things could be a lot worse. We could have you guys arguing over who is going to be flying E-190s and C-Series for mainline.
Hopefully the scope line is continually held and regionals keep shrinking.
Delta system ASMs are being held constant, what is changing is that regional ASMs are decreasing while mainline ASMs are increasing. At worst the fleet size stays the same, but mainline at Delta certainly isn't shrinking.
There will be so much movement mainline in up coming years that'll be impossible to retire aircraft to match retirements unless the legacies want to cede more market share to LCCs. They have their financial houses mostly in order, and Delta in particular is firing on all cylinders. They won't be shrinking much if anymore baring any 9/11 type event, but something like that would ruin the whole industry.
What is happening to DCI and soon to happen elsewhere is great news for long term career progression. Things could be a lot worse. We could have you guys arguing over who is going to be flying E-190s and C-Series for mainline.
Hopefully the scope line is continually held and regionals keep shrinking.
12-07-2012 | 06:15 AM
#229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
The pilots of Pinnacle have one advantage. You have the Delta play book that has already been written and used on Comair. Please listen to my fellow former Comair pilots on here. They have all written excellent advice.
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
It does not matter why or how you ended up in this mess. The bottom line is that your jobs have been replaced. I, myself, have gone through each of the emotions that have been represented on this thread.
Blaming loose scope, management, Delta, cheap competitors, etc. It does not matter. Identify your blame and rationalization for what it is...denial. Then focus on getting the best job you can with the skills you have.
Most of the pilots at Comair who used their time wisely were able to land on their feet pretty well. The ones that were in denial until the last day of work are still unemployed. Good luck, full pay until the last day, and F.U. Delta Management, I will never forget!
You don't want to be caught with your pants down when the music stops.
12-07-2012 | 06:57 AM
#230
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 273
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As close as this situation looks the Comair situation it is different. Delta does not hate us like they did Comair. The blood between 9E and Delta is not even close to what it was between Delta and Comair. So this may have a different outcome. No guarantees that it will though.
I do agree that each and every pilot should be developing a plan on worst case scenario. We probably will sign and ratify a new JCBA. If you don't want to work under the new contract, quit. But you probably will not quit until you have found an opportunity that works well for you and your family. Leaving when things are good for you will be better than just getting thrown on the street. Having a personal plan will help with dealing with the stress this situation has been brought upon each and every pilot at 9E.
I do agree that each and every pilot should be developing a plan on worst case scenario. We probably will sign and ratify a new JCBA. If you don't want to work under the new contract, quit. But you probably will not quit until you have found an opportunity that works well for you and your family. Leaving when things are good for you will be better than just getting thrown on the street. Having a personal plan will help with dealing with the stress this situation has been brought upon each and every pilot at 9E.
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