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Old 09-18-2013 | 06:32 AM
  #151  
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Bar is a smart dude.. enjoyed the read.
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Old 09-18-2013 | 07:42 AM
  #152  
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It is also a shame so many of our peers do not pay attention to our careers at all. They go fly the plane and then go home and do not pay attention. I have talked to both mainline and regional pilots and it amazes me how many have no clue what is happening in the industry. They know their own airline but when you ask anything about someone else's airline they have no idea. Latest example was from a delta capt and he said, "Pinnacle went through a bankruptcy"
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Old 09-18-2013 | 07:46 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by tom14cat14
It is also a shame so many of our peers do not pay attention to our careers at all. They go fly the plane and then go home and do not pay attention. I have talked to both mainline and regional pilots and it amazes me how many have no clue what is happening in the industry. They know their own airline but when you ask anything about someone else's airline they have no idea. Latest example was from a delta capt and he said, "Pinnacle went through a bankruptcy"
My last commute home when I was at Comair the Delta Captain asked me when I was going to upgrade.
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Old 09-18-2013 | 07:52 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by tom14cat14
It is also a shame so many of our peers do not pay attention to our careers at all. They go fly the plane and then go home and do not pay attention. I have talked to both mainline and regional pilots and it amazes me how many have no clue what is happening in the industry. They know their own airline but when you ask anything about someone else's airline they have no idea. Latest example was from a delta capt and he said, "Pinnacle went through a bankruptcy"
Cant tell you how astounded I am sometimes. During the whole ATP fiasco the last year, many mainline pilots either had no idea, or forgot what an ATP is.... same with company problems, even their own. no idea. come in, fly, check out, forget.
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Old 09-18-2013 | 08:25 AM
  #155  
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Tom 14, 8 Hour and People Mover,

When you look around ALPA's offices you see quite a few former regional pilots in the lower ranks. Demographics being what they are, the senior positions are mostly filled with former military officers, some of them who have known each other since the Academies. Those same demographics are going to see many of the senior folks move to their well earned retirement. The middle will hopefully move up and you will replace me at the bottom.

If you will get plugged in, learn how your union operates, volunteer and get involved then you will be the generation that can push through changes that improve your profession. I for one am looking forward to your contribution.

You will need a long time horizon. My guess we are about 5 years out from seeing results from our efforts. Can't get frustrated at the first closed door you run into. Again, some of you need to volunteer. Get involved in anything ... it will give you a much greater perspective, better balance and increase your effectiveness.

Lee Moak was an ALPA volunteer before he was President.
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Old 09-18-2013 | 08:54 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Without a real merger policy, there was no way to force real, structural, unity. In effect ALPA agreed to alter ego whipsaw, as long as it existed at the permitted aircraft level.

The perception was, and is, that express jobs are not real airline pilot jobs. That for some reason your flying, which indistinguishably mimics the flying I do, is simply a stepping stone to a real job ... and only real jobs should be protected.
If this is how things are then why should regionals be part of ALPA since we do not have "real airline jobs" that need to be protected? (No sarcasm intended)
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Old 09-18-2013 | 08:58 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Tom 14, 8 Hour and People Mover,

When you look around ALPA's offices you see quite a few former regional pilots in the lower ranks. Demographics being what they are, the senior positions are mostly filled with former military officers, some of them who have known each other since the Academies. Those same demographics are going to see many of the senior folks move to their well earned retirement. The middle will hopefully move up and you will replace me at the bottom.

If you will get plugged in, learn how your union operates, volunteer and get involved then you will be the generation that can push through changes that improve your profession. I for one am looking forward to your contribution.

You will need a long time horizon. My guess we are about 5 years out from seeing results from our efforts. Can't get frustrated at the first closed door you run into. Again, some of you need to volunteer. Get involved in anything ... it will give you a much greater perspective, better balance and increase your effectiveness.

Lee Moak was an ALPA volunteer before he was President.
I have been saying this for a long time.

Currently the legacies and their respective unions are largely made up of former military pilots and their "squadron buddies". Thus the culture is what it is.

As more and more former Regional pilots age, mature, and move up the ranks we will see a culture shift. It is happening now but in small doses. In another 5 to 8 years there will be a balance between the older, former military pilots on the verge of retirement and the younger generations of former Regional pilots.

It takes time to see a culture shift. It is happening now but we won't see practical results for another few years.
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Old 09-18-2013 | 09:48 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by tom14cat14
It is also a shame so many of our peers do not pay attention to our careers at all. They go fly the plane and then go home and do not pay attention. I have talked to both mainline and regional pilots and it amazes me how many have no clue what is happening in the industry. They know their own airline but when you ask anything about someone else's airline they have no idea. Latest example was from a delta capt and he said, "Pinnacle went through a bankruptcy"
jumpseating home on a Usair bus, captain asks me as we pull in next to a Usair E190 "is that mainline or express?" Some of these guys don't even know what's happening outside of their fleet type.
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Old 09-18-2013 | 07:19 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by jethikoki
If this is how things are then why should regionals be part of ALPA since we do not have "real airline jobs" that need to be protected? (No sarcasm intended)
Poor choice of words on my part. There are a few perspectives at play here, what I perceive to be my MEC's view, your MEC's view, National's view, my opinion ... I wasn't very clear.

Ideally, your airline is in ALPA because you use each other to coordinate your bargaining and bargain up, improving contracts with each successive round.

That process has failed with Pinnacle's bargaining to score flying with concessions.

I have pointed you to the resources descriptive of how to manage your union.

This will not be pretty for the non ALPA players either. Unity is only as strong as the weakest link.c
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Old 09-18-2013 | 08:58 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Poor choice of words on my part. There are a few perspectives at play here, what I perceive to be my MEC's view, your MEC's view, National's view, my opinion ... I wasn't very clear.

Ideally, your airline is in ALPA because you use each other to coordinate your bargaining and bargain up, improving contracts with each successive round.

That process has failed with Pinnacle's bargaining to score flying with concessions.

I have pointed you to the resources descriptive of how to manage your union.

This will not be pretty for the non ALPA players either. Unity is only as strong as the weakest link.c
And now ALPA National seems to be okay with standing by while we all take concessions.

“September 16, 2013



Fellow Pilot,

On September 6, you received a letter from your former MEC Chairman on his final day in office as the EGL MEC Chairman. His letter expressed many concerns, but focused most on recent negotiations at PSA and on ALPA’s response to your company requests for concessions.

I will not respond to his letter point-by-point; however, I feel that it is important for you to understand the Association’s perspective with regards to the future of the regional industry.

It is my belief that our approach should be to always deliberately discuss and understand the world we live in, carefully weigh all the facts and alternatives, and respond thoughtfully and without emotion to ensure that we protect existing work and build career paths for the future of our members.

Today, the Fee-For-Departure (FFD) pilots and their companies are facing intense industry pressure similar to that faced by legacy pilots in the last decade following 9/11. The external factors present during that period resulted in downward modification to collective bargaining agreements. Mainline contracts are returning more closely to an appropriate standard for pay, benefits, work rules and job security provisions.

Prolonged economic downturn, consolidation, high fuel prices, and an increased focus on capacity discipline has led mainlines to constrain affiliate capacity, focus on larger more fuel efficient jets, and reduce the overall costs they pay to FFD carriers. This includes an increased focus on FFD pilot block hour costs. With stagnation in the industry increasing longevity costs at some carriers, there is a wide disparity in pilot block hour costs.

The economic factors listed above, along with an increase to the regulated retirement age, have limited career growth opportunities as well as slowed hiring. This resulted in increased longevity among FFD pilots during the past 10 years. At some airlines — Eagle and Endeavor (formerly Pinnacle), for example — higher average longevity has been one of the biggest cost drivers in those contracts. Pilot longevity also played a huge role in making Comair financially uncompetitive.

While actual Year 15 rates between two carriers may only be as little as 2% apart, one carrier will have much higher average longevity than the other and this longevity component can raise pilot block hour costs from approximately $275 to $350 per hour.

Consider these current realities:

· Mainline carriers are now re-equipping their FFD affiliates where large capital expenditures are needed.

· We are in a bargaining cycle where overcapacity exists and mainline airlines have choices over where to allocate this flying.

· Mainline carriers don't need our help to achieve lower block hour costs; they can achieve this simply by using existing lower cost partners to do the flying.

I’m confident that consolidation at FFD carriers, an improving economic picture, and more fuel efficient and larger jets will improve our negotiating leverage in the next few years. We will again be in a stronger bargaining position in the near future, just like at mainline carriers and like the robust and favorable bargaining during FFD negotiations between 1999 and 2004.

Normal turnover, increased hiring at mainline carriers as a result of increased number of retirements, and new hiring at the regional level, will eventually lower longevity costs. But what do we do in the meantime? We have tough choices to make about how to protect our members’ work at existing carriers, and where necessary, to provide soft landings for pilots at FFD carriers that may not survive rather than force fellow pilots to start over at the bottom of someone else’s seniority list. We also need to continue to pressure the brands to take more responsibility for their affiliates as well.

ALPA pilots have never been afraid of tough choices or hard work to protect our profession. We discuss the issues, weigh the pros and cons, and make decisions that are deliberate and thoughtful rather than emotional.

FFD carrier representatives gathered a few weeks ago and again last week to discuss these issues, and they'll meet again in November to make collective decisions. As always, they will have the support of my office and the Association’s resources to carry out their mission.”
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