Stop the Whipsaw!
09-25-2013 | 02:32 PM
#171
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This is a sad but true reality. Again way too many people have their head in the clouds. People are giving idealist solutions for a world that is far from ideal. People have been saying "i'll just quit" since 2002. Here is a hint it hasn't happened. People were furloughed but we never saw the mass resignations. Look if regionals were right sized absolutely we would have all the leverage. It's a mad mad world out there and unfortunately it is every man for himself. Unity is simply an illusion. There are too many personalities out there. I am not saying anyone should vote in paycuts. All I am saying is that there is little to no leverage, there will be no shortage, and always leave yourself with outs.
09-25-2013 | 02:37 PM
#172
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At some point if the business has cut pay and benefits too much, combined with new ATP min requirements, age 65, and new rest rules, the worst paying/quality of life employers will not be able to get the far fewer willing to work under those crappy contracts in the door.
Also, if every pilot group refuses pay/benefit/work rule cuts hundreds of multimillion dollar airframes can't and won't be parked overnight! No way can all the feed be replace or shuffled that quickly, nor is there enough "slack" in any airlines training departments(or sims) to pick up any significant amount of flying in a reasonable amount of time.
All any pilot group would accomplish by taking cuts would be lining managements pockets as they give themselves bonuses for the pilots losses/sacrifices.
Also, if every pilot group refuses pay/benefit/work rule cuts hundreds of multimillion dollar airframes can't and won't be parked overnight! No way can all the feed be replace or shuffled that quickly, nor is there enough "slack" in any airlines training departments(or sims) to pick up any significant amount of flying in a reasonable amount of time.
All any pilot group would accomplish by taking cuts would be lining managements pockets as they give themselves bonuses for the pilots losses/sacrifices.
09-25-2013 | 03:01 PM
#173
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Serious question: How many times have pilots told management to pound sand and win? The only thing that comes immediately to my mind is what American mainline pilots pulled off last year....but I think "owning the flying" i.e., being a mainline pilot, offers one much more leverage than a regional does.
09-25-2013 | 04:05 PM
#174
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Serious question: How many times have pilots told management to pound sand and win? The only thing that comes immediately to my mind is what American mainline pilots pulled off last year....but I think "owning the flying" i.e., being a mainline pilot, offers one much more leverage than a regional does.
As far as regionals though, as long as the same union is representing the airline that owns their flying, it has about as much chance as a snowball on the sun.
09-25-2013 | 06:35 PM
#176
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09-25-2013 | 06:56 PM
#177
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There is plenty of slack out there right now. Have you not seen how many 50 seaters are out there? Sure service to Springfield, IL or Saginaw, MI might suffer for a few months but there is no leverage. Regionals are tripping over themselves to get the large airplanes, pilots always go for the quick upgrade, and the 50 seaters are NOT being replaced 1-1. Keep those resumes updated and get out while you can. I am guessing PSA votes their TA in by a slim margin. Like it or not history is repeating itself before our eyes. Mainline pilots said the same things 10 years ago then consolidation happened. It is unfortunately our turn to consolidate. There has been a mythical pilot shortage right around the corner since I started college in 1994. Never gonna happen
Apparently you missed my point... The lower tier regionals are already having a problem getting meat in the seats. Silver and Great Lakes are having to use captains in the right seat(and still canceling lots of flights, and dropping some of their markets), and even Republic and Eagle are having to offer $5000.00 to get bodies to take the less than fantastic pay for their respective first officer positions! There is NO need for anymore concessions of any sort at any regional!! The only way to stop the slide is to vote no to any and all further concessions period. All the major airlines are now making huge profits, and can't afford to lose large portions of their hub feed.
Their ability to get qualified people to fill the seats will only decrease as hiring picks up(age 65 retirements), new rest rules, and 1500 hour minimums culls the ability to fill seats with lower experience.
MAN UP!
Last edited by Paid2fly; 09-25-2013 at 07:13 PM.
09-25-2013 | 07:06 PM
#178
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
09-25-2013 | 07:25 PM
#179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
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Apparently you missed my point... The lower tier regionals are already having a problem getting meat in the seats. Silver and Great Lakes are having to use captains in the right seat(and still canceling lots of flights, and dropping some of their markets), and even Republic and Eagle are having to offer $5000.00 to get bodies to take the less than fantastic pay for their respective first officer positions! There is NO need for anymore concessions of any sort at any regional!! The only way to stop the slide is to vote no to any and all further concessions period. All the major airlines are now making huge profits, and can't afford to lose large portions of their hub feed.
Their ability to get qualified people to fill the seats will only decrease as hiring picks up(age 65 retirements), new rest rules, and 1500 hour minimums culls the ability to fill seats with lower experience.
MAN UP!
Their ability to get qualified people to fill the seats will only decrease as hiring picks up(age 65 retirements), new rest rules, and 1500 hour minimums culls the ability to fill seats with lower experience.
MAN UP!
09-25-2013 | 07:29 PM
#180
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I didn't say anyone needed to take concessions I am simply stating the reality that there will be no shortage and therefore no leverage. Sorry but unicorns do not exist in the regional world. There will be no shortage and the sky will not fall. Every week there is someone swearing that no one showed up to class. Haven't heard any facts to back it up just wishful thinking. It is hilarious how convinced people are about this mythical shortage. Airlines like lakes may very well go away but there are very small cogs in the machine. There is no pot of gold to be had at the regionals. Mainline pits us all against each other because they can. Sorry I am a realist and I know we will not band together, pinnacle was the first group to bend, many more will follow. The internet is an atrocious sample of how people will vote on things.
yup. well said
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