Hiring Discrimination at Majors?
03-04-2014, 07:51 AM
#21
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,822
Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat
Just because you're black doesn't mean you should get an interview over a more qualified person.
03-04-2014, 07:55 AM
#22
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,618
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Because you might be a gigantic toolbag, and the person with no or less PIC isn't?
Because they have a more well rounded resume, or their resume simply looks better aesthetically than yours?
Because they performed better on testing?
Because they might be better networked than you are, with more and better recommendation letters?
Because F you, that's why?
Aviation ain't FIFO, people. While favoritism certainly exists in this world, you get interviews and hired on your own merits, as decided by the company doing the hiring. That's not discrimination, that's life.
Because they have a more well rounded resume, or their resume simply looks better aesthetically than yours?
Because they performed better on testing?
Because they might be better networked than you are, with more and better recommendation letters?
Because F you, that's why?
Aviation ain't FIFO, people. While favoritism certainly exists in this world, you get interviews and hired on your own merits, as decided by the company doing the hiring. That's not discrimination, that's life.
03-04-2014, 08:09 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Originally Posted by Flying Ninja
I can't even begin to express how flawed this mentality is, and how angry this basis for hiring nonsense makes me. There is *no way* you can accurately depict if this is the case for everyone. Sure, there will be people walking through the door stinking of eau de toilette, but you can't tell me that people behave the same at a job interview vs. in the company of fellow pilots. I'll even add this. What are you talking about up there in that cockpit? I thought you are supposed to monitor the progress of the flight, manage the systems, negotiate procedures, communicate with ATC, and maintain situational awareness in the interest of safety and passenger comfort. If that's the case, what does my personality have to do with this? And after we get to the hotel, your time is your time, my time is my time. Don't tell me every captain hangs out with every FO/FA and vice versa all the time, every day, every trip.
At an interview, I'm putting my best foot forward, prim and proper. Behind closed doors, the inappropriate jokes, humor, sh!t talking, all comes out. And not for nothing, that's personality expressions that you will not get at an interview. Plus, just because the interviewer can't stand the guy, doesn't mean the rest of the pilot group who ACTUALLY flies with this guy, will feel the same way.
This is such a screwed up mentality to hire someone on.
At an interview, I'm putting my best foot forward, prim and proper. Behind closed doors, the inappropriate jokes, humor, sh!t talking, all comes out. And not for nothing, that's personality expressions that you will not get at an interview. Plus, just because the interviewer can't stand the guy, doesn't mean the rest of the pilot group who ACTUALLY flies with this guy, will feel the same way.
This is such a screwed up mentality to hire someone on.
I agree with this. Some of the people I fly with are stiffs, some are extremely intelligent, some are blustering, racist, woman-hating windbags. The important thing is that, professionally, we get along fine and operate the aircraft safely. We don't have get a drink on the overnights or be best buds by the end of the trip.
Sometimes it feels like the airlines shoot for a certain type instead of embracing the differences and just hiring professionals.
03-04-2014, 08:25 AM
#24
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Who do the legacy airlines hire?
Who do the legacy airlines hire? Answer: Whomever they want to.
Most likely you already know if you have a shot or not. If you are not someones kid, come from a preferred group in the military, or are from a demographic that is in demand then the odds are strongly against you.
Most airlines have a pattern that is discernible. Do you fit the mold and already have strong internal contacts? Do you go to the same church as the chief pilots and are dating his daughter?
The military is going to start dumping possibly thousands of pilots each year as they downsize. In the mid 1990's when the military last purged the ranks my generation of civilian pilots could not get a job at the regionals because ground school classes were flooded with C5 and 141 guys.
Skyhigh
Most likely you already know if you have a shot or not. If you are not someones kid, come from a preferred group in the military, or are from a demographic that is in demand then the odds are strongly against you.
Most airlines have a pattern that is discernible. Do you fit the mold and already have strong internal contacts? Do you go to the same church as the chief pilots and are dating his daughter?
The military is going to start dumping possibly thousands of pilots each year as they downsize. In the mid 1990's when the military last purged the ranks my generation of civilian pilots could not get a job at the regionals because ground school classes were flooded with C5 and 141 guys.
Skyhigh
03-04-2014, 08:51 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
This is a topic I've been pondering lately. Although I look about as white as it gets (there is a reason I don't often wear shorts 
), I have a some Alaska Native heritage. I plan on marking it on any future application, but I'm wondering if it would look like I'm making too big of a deal out of it if I do more than that.
), I have a some Alaska Native heritage. I plan on marking it on any future application, but I'm wondering if it would look like I'm making too big of a deal out of it if I do more than that.
03-04-2014, 08:59 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by alaskadrifter
This is a topic I've been pondering lately. Although I look about as white as it gets (there is a reason I don't often wear shorts ), I have a some Alaska Native heritage. I plan on marking it on any future application, but I'm wondering if it would look like I'm making too big of a deal out of it if I do more than that.
), I have a some Alaska Native heritage. I plan on marking it on any future application, but I'm wondering if it would look like I'm making too big of a deal out of it if I do more than that.
03-04-2014, 09:06 AM
#27
2 days off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Embraer Systems Analyst
Posts: 1,853
It's no secret you get an interview quicker if you're a minority. Maybe not quicker but the odds are in your favor. Just don't go bragging that to your non minority friends! Some are just so cocky about it.
03-04-2014, 09:07 AM
#28
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by Flying Ninja
I can't even begin to express how flawed this mentality is,
Originally Posted by Flying Ninja
and how angry this basis for hiring nonsense makes me. .
03-04-2014, 09:12 AM
#29
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by alaskadrifter
I have a some Alaska Native heritage. I plan on marking it on any future application, but I'm wondering if it would look like I'm making too big of a deal out of it if I do more than that.
A squadron mate of mine had just gotten hired at my airline. We were in the crew room one day just after he got his rejection letter from United.
Him: "Do you think if I had told them I was 1/8th Mexican it would have made a difference?"
Me: "Are you?"
Him: "Yeah, my grandmother was Mexican."
Me: "If you send in another cold application and put that fact on it, I GUARANTEE you'll be working at United in 6 weeks."
The next time I saw him he was turning in his books and leaving for his DENTK United class. I couldn't get hired at United with 5200 hours of flight time, 2000 in DC-9s with my UAL Captain Dad hand carrying my stuff into HR.
Why? They told him I was "overqualified." They wanted people with 750 -1500 hours that they could "train to be United pilots."
The bottom line is this...getting a job at a Major airline is extremely competitive. Use EVERYTHING you can to get hired at your dream job, even (tacky though it sounds) if you have to play any race/gender card you may legitimately have.
As the previous poster said, everyone getting the interview is qualified. You have to have basic aviation qualifications no matter what race/gender you are. If you can't cut it in training or on the line, they'll get rid of you or make you a permanent First Officer.
Once you're out on the line, you'll find your race/gender makes ZERO difference. The only people who care are the HR types that have to check the Equal Opportunity quota box.
03-04-2014, 09:13 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Are you on some type of list/roll of an Alaskan Native American recognized tribe?
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