Hiring Discrimination at Majors?
03-04-2014, 10:29 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by MARX
I wouldn't call it discrimination. Statistically speaking, training failures actually start to increase with total flight time in excess of 7000 hours. There are currently airlines who begin to subtract points for every thousand hours past 6000 tt.
In my new hire class, the only ones under 10k hours were 3 AF guys. No busts, additional IOE or anything else.
03-04-2014, 10:37 AM
#42
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Posts: 4,676
Originally Posted by MARX
I wouldn't call it discrimination. Statistically speaking, training failures actually start to increase with total flight time in excess of 7000 hours. There are currently airlines who begin to subtract points for every thousand hours past 6000 tt.
Academic history is quickly becoming a bigger part of the screening rubric. I think a lot of pilots fall into the trap of thinking that the more time they have, the better, when in fact anything past 3000 hours doesn't really make anyone more hirable.
Another previously ignored metric is community involvement. Volunteerism is highly desired. I'm willing to bet that a lot of you squawking about age discrimination have absolutely no community involvement in their background.
It's not just flight time – airlines screen off of so much more. Look at your apps, what is it that makes you stand out in a positive way? There are literally thousands of pilots who meet the minimum qualifications for the job you're applying for – why do you deserve the job over them?
Academic history is quickly becoming a bigger part of the screening rubric. I think a lot of pilots fall into the trap of thinking that the more time they have, the better, when in fact anything past 3000 hours doesn't really make anyone more hirable.
Another previously ignored metric is community involvement. Volunteerism is highly desired. I'm willing to bet that a lot of you squawking about age discrimination have absolutely no community involvement in their background.
It's not just flight time – airlines screen off of so much more. Look at your apps, what is it that makes you stand out in a positive way? There are literally thousands of pilots who meet the minimum qualifications for the job you're applying for – why do you deserve the job over them?
However, you can take this FWIW, but currently at UAL, the average (I say AGAIN, AVERAGE) civilian only background new hire at UAL has over 9k TT. AGAIN, that's the average. NOT an intern on a fast track, NOT a son/daughter on a fast track, NOT a golfing budding that's gone to EVERY job fair on a fast track, whatever anybody wants to counter with. That's the guys coming from regionals, ACMI's, LCC's, and/or a combination of all three.
I know TWO recent civilian DAL interviewees that ALSO had over 9K TT.
03-04-2014, 10:58 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by John Carr
There is ONE airline, that really isn't hiring right now, that has pretty much come out and said the above. It was stated at a hub meeting where the CP and other management people had just done a rundown of what their new process looks for in apps. As well as what detracts from an app points system.
Which airline?
I know in 2006/2007, a new CA upgrade friend of mine (I was a junior FO) got hired at CAL. He said they didn't interview anyone past 6000 hours of TT, because if they hadn't gotten hired by then they were damaged goods. Made sense in a way, then age 65 and 2008 happened, and for those not able to make a move prior to that they sorta got screwed.
If you've got >3 years as CA at your commuter the BEST way to get ahead and out of there is to become a check airman. Then it seems TT doesn't matter so much, vs. the guy that has 12,000 hours of TT, 9,000 TPIC, just went to work every day. There are so many of those guys, it's really hard to differentiate yourself.
03-04-2014, 11:04 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by fosters
Which airline?
Narrow it down?
And what was said was 2+ years ago.
03-04-2014, 11:05 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by John Carr
One that went from a VERY pilot friendly vetting, referral, meet and greet system to a complex computer sorting system with a shrink's input.
Narrow it down?
And what was said was 2+ years ago.
Narrow it down?
And what was said was 2+ years ago.
No I really have no clue, can you be more specific? Why so obtuse? The only one I can even think of that isn't hiring is Alaska. But they've always been a touch nut to crack.
03-04-2014, 11:15 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by John Carr
There is ONE airline, that really isn't hiring right now, that has pretty much come out and said the above. It was stated at a hub meeting where the CP and other management people had just done a rundown of what their new process looks for in apps. As well as what detracts from an app points system.
However, you can take this FWIW, but currently at UAL, the average (I say AGAIN, AVERAGE) civilian only background new hire at UAL has over 9k TT. AGAIN, that's the average. NOT an intern on a fast track, NOT a son/daughter on a fast track, NOT a golfing budding that's gone to EVERY job fair on a fast track, whatever anybody wants to counter with. That's the guys coming from regionals, ACMI's, LCC's, and/or a combination of all three.
I know TWO recent civilian DAL interviewees that ALSO had over 9K TT.
However, you can take this FWIW, but currently at UAL, the average (I say AGAIN, AVERAGE) civilian only background new hire at UAL has over 9k TT. AGAIN, that's the average. NOT an intern on a fast track, NOT a son/daughter on a fast track, NOT a golfing budding that's gone to EVERY job fair on a fast track, whatever anybody wants to counter with. That's the guys coming from regionals, ACMI's, LCC's, and/or a combination of all three.
I know TWO recent civilian DAL interviewees that ALSO had over 9K TT.
03-04-2014, 11:23 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
Average? Cite your sources.
Sorry, I apologize, that's my source. You DON'T have to believe it, I DON'T expect you too, take it for what it's worth. Maybe he was lying to me
You have a more credible source, lets hear it. You get a meet and greet with one of those guys, you get to talk to CV PERSONALLY, please let us know what you find out.
03-04-2014, 11:39 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by Flying Ninja
Anyone experience hiring discrimination when applying to the majors?
Example, you're qualified, but in your 40's or 50's and the majors pass you over for a 20- or 30-something?
I've also heard stories that females get preferential hiring over equally experienced male counterparts at the majors.
Truth to any of this?
Example, you're qualified, but in your 40's or 50's and the majors pass you over for a 20- or 30-something?
I've also heard stories that females get preferential hiring over equally experienced male counterparts at the majors.
Truth to any of this?
Ask the UAL 89r's.
And in about 1991, North West was sued by some 40's+ age pilots who were interviewed in the 1980s', but not hired. They won, and NW had to re interview and hire some of them.
Not sure there's been any discrimination lately, only because none of the Majors have been hiring in about the last 5 years.
03-04-2014, 11:45 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by John Carr
The IAH CP during a UAL meet and greet. Not only what I was told during mine, but every other guy I know that's had one in the last few months. The people I know interviewed and in the pool waiting are over that TT, two of them are LCA's.
Sorry, I apologize, that's my source. You DON'T have to believe it, I DON'T expect you too, take it for what it's worth. Maybe he was lying to me
You have a more credible source, lets hear it. You get a meet and greet with one of those guys, you get to talk to CV PERSONALLY, please let us know what you find out.
Sorry, I apologize, that's my source. You DON'T have to believe it, I DON'T expect you too, take it for what it's worth. Maybe he was lying to me
You have a more credible source, lets hear it. You get a meet and greet with one of those guys, you get to talk to CV PERSONALLY, please let us know what you find out.
If I should ever meet someone in upper management PERSONALLY (cool story bro), I would share the insight.
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