Tricked: PDT keeping turboprops anyway
09-18-2014 | 01:49 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
The last act has not played out in the Envoy drama yet...There is still almost 2.5 years before the first 175 theoretically shows up at EN. Don't be surprised to see Envoy and AAG going back to the table and this time a deal WILL be crafted that the pilots WILL sign this time. The caveat, is this deal will be cheaper than the one the pilots rejected twice previously. AAG does not want to retain the ERJ-140/145 fleet, and I maintain they still want the remaining E-175s, plus any options on Envoys certificate. Isn't it obvious to those of you that can stop playing internet games that AAG wants TWO fleet-types and TWO certificates...ONLY. The end result is a streamlined, consolidated operation with cheaper labor. I have seen this "movie" before at "Pinnacolaba" where DAL very, very shrewdly manipulated our pilot groups into a "wham-bam" contract negotiation ( FIVE years PNCL Corp. had the pilots twisting in the wind with an amenable contract, and inside 6 weeks we had a TA with an integrated seniority list and a no-holds-barred open bidding process that created a ridiculous training bubble that cost MILLIONS ). The resulting bankruptcy through a debtor in possession process gave Delta equity, control and cheap lift with 81 CRJ-900s and got rid of the Colgan certificate to boot.
So, all of you at Envoy that are firing broadsides at STW on FB and other forums need to stop, think and re-evaluate exactly what the airline's strategic business goals are and how they will work to reach these goals.
So, all of you at Envoy that are firing broadsides at STW on FB and other forums need to stop, think and re-evaluate exactly what the airline's strategic business goals are and how they will work to reach these goals.
09-18-2014 | 02:01 PM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
From: PNF
The last act has not played out in the Envoy drama yet...There is still almost 2.5 years before the first 175 theoretically shows up at EN. Don't be surprised to see Envoy and AAG going back to the table and this time a deal WILL be crafted that the pilots WILL sign this time. The caveat, is this deal will be cheaper than the one the pilots rejected twice previously. AAG does not want to retain the ERJ-140/145 fleet, and I maintain they still want the remaining E-175s, plus any options on Envoys certificate. Isn't it obvious to those of you that can stop playing internet games that AAG wants TWO fleet-types and TWO certificates...ONLY. The end result is a streamlined, consolidated operation with cheaper labor. I have seen this "movie" before at "Pinnacolaba" where DAL very, very shrewdly manipulated our pilot groups into a "wham-bam" contract negotiation ( FIVE years PNCL Corp. had the pilots twisting in the wind with an amenable contract, and inside 6 weeks we had a TA with an integrated seniority list and a no-holds-barred open bidding process that created a ridiculous training bubble that cost MILLIONS ). The resulting bankruptcy through a debtor in possession process gave Delta equity, control and cheap lift with 81 CRJ-900s and got rid of the Colgan certificate to boot.
So, all of you at Envoy that are firing broadsides at STW on FB and other forums need to stop, think and re-evaluate exactly what the airline's strategic business goals are and how they will work to reach these goals.
So, all of you at Envoy that are firing broadsides at STW on FB and other forums need to stop, think and re-evaluate exactly what the airline's strategic business goals are and how they will work to reach these goals.
09-18-2014 | 02:14 PM
#113
Happy at PDT
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
From: EMB-145 CA
Worst part about what you said can come true if Envoy wants it. Your contract you just signed has many loopholes that AAG will exploit. If Envoy votes yes, they can and will take away your precious E175s leaving you back where you started with Dash 8s about to time out of cycles.. working for cheaper. Then the whipsaw continues...
09-18-2014 | 02:16 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
From: DHC-8 100/300
Worst part about what you said can come true if Envoy wants it. Your contract you just signed has many loopholes that AAG will exploit. If Envoy votes yes, they can and will take away your precious E175s leaving you back where you started with Dash 8s about to time out of cycles.. working for cheaper. Then the whipsaw continues...
09-18-2014 | 03:17 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 0
Worst part about what you said can come true if Envoy wants it. Your contract you just signed has many loopholes that AAG will exploit. If Envoy votes yes, they can and will take away your precious E175s leaving you back where you started with Dash 8s about to time out of cycles.. working for cheaper. Then the whipsaw continues...
Parker is done with Envoy till 2016. He said they will now ride out there BK contract then after that they will talk again.
Why bring 145's to PDT and set up a whole new training program for a WO when the other one already has it all set up?? The 175's is a totally different plane and a program will have to be set up.
I predict PDT will get the 175 Program started in CLT since Mainline already has the Sim in CLT and the 190 Program going. This will be a fast and seamless process. When 2016 comes around they will merge the two airlines and what's done is done! Parker got what he set out to get.
Both PSA, PDT and Envoy will just be a pawn in the game and ALPA sat back and watched it all unfold with they arms crossed winking and smiling over at Management.
Insert Quarter to continue!!
09-18-2014 | 06:40 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
The last act has not played out in the Envoy drama yet...There is still almost 2.5 years before the first 175 theoretically shows up at EN. Don't be surprised to see Envoy and AAG going back to the table and this time a deal WILL be crafted that the pilots WILL sign this time. The caveat, is this deal will be cheaper than the one the pilots rejected twice previously. AAG does not want to retain the ERJ-140/145 fleet, and I maintain they still want the remaining E-175s, plus any options on Envoys certificate. Isn't it obvious to those of you that can stop playing internet games that AAG wants TWO fleet-types and TWO certificates...ONLY. The end result is a streamlined, consolidated operation with cheaper labor. I have seen this "movie" before at "Pinnacolaba" where DAL very, very shrewdly manipulated our pilot groups into a "wham-bam" contract negotiation ( FIVE years PNCL Corp. had the pilots twisting in the wind with an amenable contract, and inside 6 weeks we had a TA with an integrated seniority list and a no-holds-barred open bidding process that created a ridiculous training bubble that cost MILLIONS ). The resulting bankruptcy through a debtor in possession process gave Delta equity, control and cheap lift with 81 CRJ-900s and got rid of the Colgan certificate to boot.
So, all of you at Envoy that are firing broadsides at STW on FB and other forums need to stop, think and re-evaluate exactly what the airline's strategic business goals are and how they will work to reach these goals.
So, all of you at Envoy that are firing broadsides at STW on FB and other forums need to stop, think and re-evaluate exactly what the airline's strategic business goals are and how they will work to reach these goals.
09-18-2014 | 06:53 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Nobody ever said they would be going away the day after it got voted down. From day one of this mess, the plan was for Dash-8s to be LEGALLY timing out en masse beginning in 2017, with a fleet of only ~22 aircraft by EOY 2017, ~14 EOY 2018, and all done by the end of 2020.
Piedmont's fleet of Dash 8's CANNOT LEGALLY FLY IN PART 121 OPERATIONS after flying 80,000 cycles, which will begin to be met in the 2017-2020 time range. What about this is so hard to understand?
At some point the fixed costs of maintaining an operation become too expensive to justify flying a small number of aircraft around. Management has said (well before this vote was even a speck on the horizon) that after 2017 they had no plans for flying the small number of planes that remained.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the events going on in this industry, and I am certainly just as disillusioned as the next guy, but spreading lies and fabricated stories doesn't help anyone.
Piedmont's fleet of Dash 8's CANNOT LEGALLY FLY IN PART 121 OPERATIONS after flying 80,000 cycles, which will begin to be met in the 2017-2020 time range. What about this is so hard to understand?
At some point the fixed costs of maintaining an operation become too expensive to justify flying a small number of aircraft around. Management has said (well before this vote was even a speck on the horizon) that after 2017 they had no plans for flying the small number of planes that remained.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the events going on in this industry, and I am certainly just as disillusioned as the next guy, but spreading lies and fabricated stories doesn't help anyone.
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