If the regionals fail that means more mainline jobs. Who wouldn't want that? It's a win win for mainline pilots and regional pilots.
I don't need to build time (I think 12000 TT is plenty) and I'm not a mainline pilot. I just think Envoy pilots (and express jet and repubic) are fooling themselves if they think regional pilots will ever have leverage when companies like PSA, PDT and Mesa lower the bar, and fellow regional pilots flock there in hopes of quick upgrades. Until pilots refuse to work for such companies the regional industry is doomed.
So Envoy can either join the race to the bottom or fail to exist is what management wants you to believe. So far it looks like management is the one to believe thus far. ALPA has done nothing to prove otherwise.
Until ALPA shows Envoy something credible that holding the line is working, I've got my money on management winning this game.

 

I agree with your logic, but where is the data to support your hypothesis. There is of course the idea of supply and demand. Dry up the supply (regionals) increase the demand (cost per ticket). Win-win for the management. Just a thought.

I do however hope you are correct.

 

I agree with most of what you have been saying. Especially in regards to Regional pilots not being Mainline pilots. Most current Regional pilots forget the fact that the Regionals operate under different rules and realities than mainline operators. We therefore can't expect to use the same tactics and get the same results.

The only thing I disagree with is the paragraph I quoted above. If a Regional fails it may or may not mean more mainline jobs. But what it absolutely will create is a saturation of unemployed, qualified pilots all chasing the same jobs.

So even if it did create more jobs at mainline in theory, the number of vacancies would be canceled out by the excess number of available pilots. Keep in mind there is always the flow of military pilots, LCC pilots, and pilots from large Cargo operators like Atlas and Omni. Not to mention the American pilots overseas with Boeing and Airbus experience.

That group is always hired first. Regional Captains get the left overs, while Regional FOs are hung out to dry. Even with more mainline jobs there are more than enough pilots from that "favored" group to fill seats. The excess of Regional Captains unemployed and looking for a job will round out the remaining slots.

Just saying...a Regional fails today and the market is flooded with pilots. That is guaranteed. More jobs at mainline? Not a guarantee, and either way not a problem from a staffing point of view.

 

I said regionals (as in a whole) not a regional (singular).

 

Nope, not even close. Mainline has restrictive scope. Without it regionals would be flying anything that makes them more money. Cost of the asa and performance is the main criteria for regionals, therefore no leverage.

 

While I agree with that premise, the fact remains you're thinking like a pilot and not an airline manager. It is not in any airline's best interests for their regionals to fail.

Whipsawing keeps costs down. They whipsaw the regionals against the mainline to keep mainline costs down and they whipsaw regionals against each other to keep feed costs down. It's a win for the airline. They don't GAS what pilots think about it.

 

Do you mean ASM?

Regionals serve several functions. Besides the whipsaw factor as noted in my previous post, they also can serve markets not financially feasible for mainline routes. Clearly it's more economical to fly a full A320 than a full E145, but that economy of scale quickly disappears when the A320 only carries 30-50 passengers yet costs the same to operate.

Regionals allow airlines to reach markets otherwise uneconomical to service.

 

When are you guys expecting to hear something about an official new proposal?

 

No, I mean airline service agreement. But the rest is correct

 

Never hopefully.
AA flight attendants voted no, by a slim sixteen votes.
AA pilots from the boards appear to be against AAG proposal to them.
Eagle/envoy 4 times has told AAG take a hike.
Only people passing there ta's are the groups from us airways.

Parker has started a firestorm and is trying to buy his way out of trouble before he takes AAG into bankruptcy which he will do anyway.