Pilot Shortage (2015 Embry Riddle summit)
01-18-2015 | 12:22 PM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
I just ended a 32 year career on Thursday, turned 65 and suddenly can't find my airplane keys!? Blood pressure 120/80, blood work good, still can bench 250, ride a bike for hours, but gotta take the bench.
There is no shortage of pilots, the majors won't let it happen. DAL & UAL say they will park airplanes first. I have been hearing about pilot shortages since 1980, never happened. So for all you guys that have been sitting at the regionals in the left seat for say 5+ years, you'll find that you have too much PIC time and the major carriers will just go out and recruit kids out of college.
The airline industry wants button pushers anyway, not someone with stick skills, just remember Asiana, "Sum Ting Wong"!!!
There is no shortage of pilots, the majors won't let it happen. DAL & UAL say they will park airplanes first. I have been hearing about pilot shortages since 1980, never happened. So for all you guys that have been sitting at the regionals in the left seat for say 5+ years, you'll find that you have too much PIC time and the major carriers will just go out and recruit kids out of college.
The airline industry wants button pushers anyway, not someone with stick skills, just remember Asiana, "Sum Ting Wong"!!!
01-18-2015 | 06:11 PM
#142
Thread Starter
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
I just ended a 32 year career on Thursday, turned 65 and suddenly can't find my airplane keys!? Blood pressure 120/80, blood work good, still can bench 250, ride a bike for hours, but gotta take the bench.
There is no shortage of pilots, the majors won't let it happen. DAL & UAL say they will park airplanes first. I have been hearing about pilot shortages since 1980, never happened. So for all you guys that have been sitting at the regionals in the left seat for say 5+ years, you'll find that you have too much PIC time and the major carriers will just go out and recruit kids out of college.
The airline industry wants button pushers anyway, not someone with stick skills, just remember Asiana, "Sum Ting Wong"!!!
There is no shortage of pilots, the majors won't let it happen. DAL & UAL say they will park airplanes first. I have been hearing about pilot shortages since 1980, never happened. So for all you guys that have been sitting at the regionals in the left seat for say 5+ years, you'll find that you have too much PIC time and the major carriers will just go out and recruit kids out of college.
The airline industry wants button pushers anyway, not someone with stick skills, just remember Asiana, "Sum Ting Wong"!!!
01-18-2015 | 06:51 PM
#143
Working weekends
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,384
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
If the airlines were smart (which they obviously are not) why would they not hire an older guy (say 45) instead of one that is 30? The older guy can't sit at the top of the seniority list more than 20 years while they are stuck with the 30 yo for 35 years drawing higher wages. You can replace that 45 yo much sooner with another 1st year FO pay a lot more frequently than you can the younger 'lifer'. Just asking...
01-18-2015 | 08:46 PM
#144
Does NOT get weekends off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
From: ERJ - 145
The summit likely consisted of:
- How can we pay the least and still get butts in the seat?
- How can we spin this to be the fault of the pilots?
- How can we spin this to be the fault of the new ATP requirements?
- Here are the projected future hiring and ATP certificate entrants in the industry. How can we best use this to maintain downward pressure on overall pilot compensation?
- How can we maximize profit at the regional level by delaying advancement to the major airlines and using larger aircraft at the regional level? This will decrease total time at a major, thereby decreasing total lifetime compensation.
- How can we spin all of this to make it look like a great career despite the exorbitant entry costs and poor compensation?
- How can we pay the least and still get butts in the seat?
- How can we spin this to be the fault of the pilots?
- How can we spin this to be the fault of the new ATP requirements?
- Here are the projected future hiring and ATP certificate entrants in the industry. How can we best use this to maintain downward pressure on overall pilot compensation?
- How can we maximize profit at the regional level by delaying advancement to the major airlines and using larger aircraft at the regional level? This will decrease total time at a major, thereby decreasing total lifetime compensation.
- How can we spin all of this to make it look like a great career despite the exorbitant entry costs and poor compensation?
I just ended a 32 year career on Thursday, turned 65 and suddenly can't find my airplane keys!? Blood pressure 120/80, blood work good, still can bench 250, ride a bike for hours, but gotta take the bench.
There is no shortage of pilots, the majors won't let it happen. DAL & UAL say they will park airplanes first. I have been hearing about pilot shortages since 1980, never happened. So for all you guys that have been sitting at the regionals in the left seat for say 5+ years, you'll find that you have too much PIC time and the major carriers will just go out and recruit kids out of college.
The airline industry wants button pushers anyway, not someone with stick skills, just remember Asiana, "Sum Ting Wong"!!!
There is no shortage of pilots, the majors won't let it happen. DAL & UAL say they will park airplanes first. I have been hearing about pilot shortages since 1980, never happened. So for all you guys that have been sitting at the regionals in the left seat for say 5+ years, you'll find that you have too much PIC time and the major carriers will just go out and recruit kids out of college.
The airline industry wants button pushers anyway, not someone with stick skills, just remember Asiana, "Sum Ting Wong"!!!
If you are in as good of shape as you claim, you beat many FOs at many companies... but thats more of the decreasing health of the average american citizen than a pilot thing so good for you for beating the odds.
01-19-2015 | 09:27 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
If the airlines were smart (which they obviously are not) why would they not hire an older guy (say 45) instead of one that is 30? The older guy can't sit at the top of the seniority list more than 20 years while they are stuck with the 30 yo for 35 years drawing higher wages. You can replace that 45 yo much sooner with another 1st year FO pay a lot more frequently than you can the younger 'lifer'. Just asking...
01-19-2015 | 09:42 AM
#146
Working weekends
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,384
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
Age Discrimination
The Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) only forbids age discrimination against people who are age 40 or older. It does not protect workers under the age of 40, although some states do have laws that protect younger workers from age discrimination.
If I hire a 25 year old, then I have 10 years as FO, then 30 years at Captain pay, that my airline has to pay out.
Remember, I just need a yoke monkey. Both guys may have the college degree, 3000 TT, 1000 turbine, etc yada yada. Now, what is best for my company ? the shareholder ?
Etc
01-19-2015 | 02:04 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Captain
Age discriminination is when they don't hire you because you are 40 or older.
Age Discrimination
If I was a CFO and counting pennies, and at my airline it was 10-years until Captain, hiring a 45 year old FO means I am paying FO pay for 10 years, then Captain pay for 10 years, then retirement. This carries over to the employee's health care costs, pension/401k matching, etc related costs.
If I hire a 25 year old, then I have 10 years as FO, then 30 years at Captain pay, that my airline has to pay out.
Remember, I just need a yoke monkey. Both guys may have the college degree, 3000 TT, 1000 turbine, etc yada yada. Now, what is best for my company ? the shareholder ?
Etc
Age Discrimination
If I was a CFO and counting pennies, and at my airline it was 10-years until Captain, hiring a 45 year old FO means I am paying FO pay for 10 years, then Captain pay for 10 years, then retirement. This carries over to the employee's health care costs, pension/401k matching, etc related costs.
If I hire a 25 year old, then I have 10 years as FO, then 30 years at Captain pay, that my airline has to pay out.
Remember, I just need a yoke monkey. Both guys may have the college degree, 3000 TT, 1000 turbine, etc yada yada. Now, what is best for my company ? the shareholder ?
Etc
01-19-2015 | 03:47 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,569
Likes: 321
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
That logic is flawed if you only account for age. Assuming longevity increases top out at 12 years, a 12-year captain is no more or less expensive than a 20-year captain. An airline needs X number of captains and Y number of FO's, the captains all cost the same (usually).
Put another way: Yes, the older pilot will make less during his tenure at the airline. But he will also produce less.
Put another way: Yes, the older pilot will make less during his tenure at the airline. But he will also produce less.
Last edited by GogglesPisano; 01-19-2015 at 04:12 PM.
01-19-2015 | 04:31 PM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Captain
That logic is flawed if you only account for age. Assuming longevity increases top out at 12 years, a 12-year captain is no more or less expensive than a 20-year captain. An airline needs X number of captains and Y number of FO's, the captains all cost the same (usually).
Put another way: Yes, the older pilot will make less during his tenure at the airline. But he will also produce less.
Put another way: Yes, the older pilot will make less during his tenure at the airline. But he will also produce less.
01-19-2015 | 04:49 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,569
Likes: 321
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
Most pay scales top out at 12 years, not 20. And they don't reset when you upgrade. That's why most captains at the legacies make the same per seat. If you hired 60-year-olds exclusively, no one would ever reach year 5 pay, and you would have incredibly low cost pilot labor (not factoring in the incredible training churn.)
But a 53-year-old pilot will cost the same as a 25-year-old over a 12 year period (more if you factor in insurance.) Beyond that, the guy hired at 25 will be on max pay, but so is every other captain at every other airline. Hence, no advantage.
The true advantage goes to airlines with quick upgrades (usually LCC's and start-up regionals.)
But a 53-year-old pilot will cost the same as a 25-year-old over a 12 year period (more if you factor in insurance.) Beyond that, the guy hired at 25 will be on max pay, but so is every other captain at every other airline. Hence, no advantage.
The true advantage goes to airlines with quick upgrades (usually LCC's and start-up regionals.)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Ryanthepilot
Flight Schools and Training
55
01-29-2015 05:09 PM
navymmw
Flight Schools and Training
23
07-11-2008 11:19 AM
