Please, it would be 2007 all over again. This used to be the cycle of things.

 

I think this is the problem right here....It's the union that is keeping everyone down...along with the indoctrination and false sense of security pilots get from seniority lists.

I've said this before but if you eliminate seniority across the industry you would eliminate low pay for experienced pilots. Pilot pay would go up based on personal experience as well as longevity because all airlines (regional, majors, it would make no difference) would have to compete for all pilots on a level field.

A captain of a large regional jet is more qualified to be a captain of an A320 or a B737 than is a first officer of a heavy jet with no PIC experience.

The "pilot shortage" myth is such clear proof of this. The airlines don't want this because they don't want to have the free market control pilot salaries.

Stop comparing your salaries with other pilots and instead compare them with other professions and you'll see the problem.

It still blows my mind when pilots talk about unions and seniority lists as the thing that protects them instead of the thing that holds them down like a giant net across the entire profession.

 

I think the opposite. The MEC's are just representatives from each of the regionals. They are not the "big brother" in all of this. If all of the airline pilots at the regionals were represented by the same union, then things that you are suggesting have a better chance of occurring. If we are divided, it will never happen.

The problem is that the majors can use places like SkyWest as bargaining chips if the unions do start to work together. That has prevented the common union carriers from working together more (well, that and the RLA ).

 

That's really stupid.

 

Let me rephrase....it's not the unions keeping pilots down...the unions are a tool by the airlines to keep pilot pay down. The system in place was originally designed to organize and protect pilots but it has evolved into a system to control and reduce pay scales.

Trust me in the fact that management is not scared of the power of unions, they are terrified that the unions and seniority systems may go away and force hiring and pay scales in an open free market.

If a senior captain at any airline were able to sell his or her skills and experience in a totally free market, the airlines would suddenly be forced to pay market value for those services. As it is now, they have you by the bal....I mean seniority number and they know it. You can't quit and go work for the competition and they know it.

 

That logic only works in an industry where there are more barriers to entry. As it has been proven many times over in this industry, there are many willing to work for substandard wages in order to enjoy the perks and respect the job offers. Management definitely uses the democratization of labor as a tool to suppress wages at every opportunity, especially at the regional level. The only thing preventing that from happening at the major level are the relatively strong unions.

Do unions have their downside? Sure, sometimes they are their own worst enemy. Free market wages are not going to come to aviation without resulting in some crushing reductions in overall compensation.

 

Free market wages aren't going to come to aviation because the aviation market isn't "free"...and regulation has a heck of a lot more to do with that than unions do.

 

Hey quagmire.....lite it up Francis !!! He was just easing the mood....!!!

 

Hey let's git rid of all our contracts and seniority lists and we'll all get huge raises! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee! lol really.

 

To re-hash what ALPA and numerous others have said, no pilot shortage at the major level. FDX, DAL, AMR, etc will NEVER put recruitment ads on Craigslist or offer signing bonuses to new hires.

Airline pilots are all equipment operators, and get paid an hourly wage. There is no college degree required for certification by the governing body (FAA), much less advanced degrees. Airline pilot is NOT a white collar profession due to the above reasons, and "income" does not automatically grant white collar status, no more than a table dancer who makes 150K is white collar.

I must have missed the "Life will be Fair to You" certificate when I popped out of my mother. This was apparently issued to other pilots but I never got mine.

If pilots aren't happy with 16K wages at Crap Express, well, go somewhere else, another company or another profession or another "path" to the airline cockpit besides regionals.

If you are jealous because DAL pays more than your company, well quit and go work for DAL. whats with all this "raising the bar" and "lowering the bar" crap. You don't like it, leave. Go where you will like it.

Sorry, but thats the reality.