$100,000 Minimum Regional First Officer
08-16-2015 | 01:07 PM
#101
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True capitalism doesn't exist when people's experience doesn't go with them from one company to another. This is the only industry where that is the case. Longevity/seniority resets make this not capitalism. I'm way anti-Hillary and friends, but this isn't fast food workers asking for $15 an hour. This is highly trained and experienced aviation professionals (mostly) flying 76 seat jets on the same routes at the same speeds in the same livery as mainline, but made up barriers to entry to the golden jobs prevent capitalism from working and result in these professionals being paid food stamp wages. Our union is supposed to protect us (as a whole profession), but we watched ALPA sell scope and put us in this situation with the proliferation of RJs.
Airlines are under investigation for colluding and fixing ticket prices, which effectively destroys the supply/demand models that true capitalism is supposed to use. The airlines also alter true capitalism with contracted feed. This isn't the way capitalism is supposed to work.
Airlines are under investigation for colluding and fixing ticket prices, which effectively destroys the supply/demand models that true capitalism is supposed to use. The airlines also alter true capitalism with contracted feed. This isn't the way capitalism is supposed to work.
It's no different than certain segments of our society depending on democrats for a few extra dollars. But democrats need these voters so they have to keep them down (dependent) otherwise they will no longer be democrats (a reason to exist). Just a crude example.
08-16-2015 | 01:59 PM
#102
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Joined: May 2015
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From: Dashing Aviator Extraordinaire
I don't know what it is with some of you people, but this is still the USA where capitalism is our way. Many of you are preaching philosophies that smack of socialism. Hey maybe you are a Hilary voter or from Europe, I don't know, but that's not how things are done here.
.
.
. You and those on your side of the fence do not own the American way.I have news for you. Capitalism in its purest form is just as insidious to our way of life as Communism. It's not all black and white.
*Personally, I side with Sanders.
08-16-2015 | 03:19 PM
#103
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Joined: Sep 2008
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You do of course realize most lawyers and doctors don't make anywhere close to that much right? And I can tell you that being an airline pilot requires less school, less financial investment, and is less work on an hour-by-hour basis than either of those professions. We are delusional to think that this is something other than a "higher-level" blue collar job. We operate heavy machinery and are members of unions. Everyone should read Flying the Line volumes 1 and 2... Automation is coming in the next decades and all it takes is another financial downturn or major war to happen and we're all out on the street again. This profession will never be "what it was". The truth is I try and discourage people from becoming professional pilots. I enjoy what I do, but this industry isn't that great. And the lifestyle will wear on you after a while. And there is no real hope of making it significantly better for future generations of pilots because time and technology simply aren't on our side.
Well said!
08-16-2015 | 03:24 PM
#104
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Truth hurts...and that's exactly what you're feeling. Instead of debating it intelligently, which you've shown incapability towards, all you can do it to insult someone.
Please don't try to compare yourself to someone who's gone to a 4-year school, then went to a 4-year medical school, etc.
To be an airline pilot, you don't even need a college degree!
Please don't try to compare yourself to someone who's gone to a 4-year school, then went to a 4-year medical school, etc.
To be an airline pilot, you don't even need a college degree!
08-16-2015 | 03:36 PM
#105
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Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
LOL. Allow me to quote yourself back to you....
...and no one care who you side with.
08-16-2015 | 03:49 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 558
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Truth hurts...and that's exactly what you're feeling. Instead of debating it intelligently, which you've shown incapability towards, all you can do it to insult someone.
Please don't try to compare yourself to someone who's gone to a 4-year school, then went to a 4-year medical school, etc.
To be an airline pilot, you don't even need a college degree!
Please don't try to compare yourself to someone who's gone to a 4-year school, then went to a 4-year medical school, etc.
To be an airline pilot, you don't even need a college degree!
08-16-2015 | 03:49 PM
#107
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 455
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That's the union sales job, but flying isn't going back to mainline. Mainline already owns the flying you speak of. If management had the pilots, they would bring back all the 50 seaters they parked in the desert, since the economics of them changed as fuel cratered recently.
Close, but no cigar. It really started with Randy Babbitt and Eastern. He admits that they screwed up. You are correct about Delta being the first to outsource the "jet" engine, but it started before that with turbo prop aircraft. Mainline pilots were too good to fly "little" turboprops after deregulation. Eastern was the first to sell scope and create "Eastern Metro" to replace mainline to places like MCN, VLD, and CSG. But who cares...after all mainline pilots are too good to fly Beech 99s and Metros.
You are right the DALPA was the first to give up the "jet". They didn't care until the BAE 146s showed up because it kinda looked like a real jet.
Egos are very much to blame for this mess...
You are right the DALPA was the first to give up the "jet". They didn't care until the BAE 146s showed up because it kinda looked like a real jet.
Egos are very much to blame for this mess...
Or you could get off your a$$ and apply to fly for the airline that controls the code. Novel idea I know. Some of us took the risk and left the comfort of the regional left seat pay check to start all over at the bottom of a mainline carrier.
Except that management makes the majority of its profits off the backs of regional pilots. The current plan is to try, and get around the 1500 hour requirement with special ATP issues for regional training programs. If that doesn't work, the plan is to over hire at mainline, and furlough them back to the regionals.
The rest of your post has some truth to it, but the truth ends with the "furlough back to the regionals". I can tell you with 100% certainty that at UA we are actively looking at the used market for Airbuses and 737's. As a matter of fact, UA has tabled the 100 seat jet search in favor of more 737-700's and A319's. We are investing $80-$100 mill at DENTK for pilot training. We are hiring 100+ per month.
08-16-2015 | 05:10 PM
#109
:-)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 1
Truth hurts...and that's exactly what you're feeling. Instead of debating it intelligently, which you've shown incapability towards, all you can do it to insult someone.
Please don't try to compare yourself to someone who's gone to a 4-year school, then went to a 4-year medical school, etc.
To be an airline pilot, you don't even need a college degree!
Please don't try to compare yourself to someone who's gone to a 4-year school, then went to a 4-year medical school, etc.
To be an airline pilot, you don't even need a college degree!
08-16-2015 | 05:20 PM
#110
:-)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 1
No I see the data every month as it pertains to UAL, and yes block hours at UAX are decreasing with mainline flying routes it hasn't flown in quite some time. 50 seaters are being parked because they are running out of bodies to fly them, and manufacturers have all but closed up the production lines. A lot of these 50 seaters are maxing out on cycles so it makes sense to park them. Bombardier is focusing on the CS line, and Embraer is focusing on it's Ejet line. Combine the stricter airframe limits, stricter block hour limits, and fewer applicants (just got my "Hey come and work at Skywest" info packet in the mail) at the regionals and you'll continue to see block hours return to mainline.
Ok Joe, there was one step made by EAL before DAL caved.
Interesting since I found the RJDC and it's named plaintiff's were "fostering hate" and "taking us nowhere". Aside from DL, and UA just outsourcing everything to the regionals and giving you guys "carte blanche" on our flying, how are you not being treated the same? As I see it, we all pay 1.95% to ALPA and it gets distributed as needed so I would argue that regional pilots get much more "bang for their buck" then the mainline pilots. Now, you can continue to hold on to the belief that ALPA holds some magic wand and that someday you'll simply be given a mainline number but that we evil mainline pilots despise you regional pilots and won't let Nat'l wield it.
Or you could get off your a$$ and apply to fly for the airline that controls the code. Novel idea I know. Some of us took the risk and left the comfort of the regional left seat pay check to start all over at the bottom of a mainline carrier.
YHGTBFSM! We make our profits on the international flying along with our business travelers. 737's, Airbuses, and RJ's help move those travelers to the international flights.
The rest of your post has some truth to it, but the truth ends with the "furlough back to the regionals". I can tell you with 100% certainty that at UA we are actively looking at the used market for Airbuses and 737's. As a matter of fact, UA has tabled the 100 seat jet search in favor of more 737-700's and A319's. We are investing $80-$100 mill at DENTK for pilot training. We are hiring 100+ per month.
Ok Joe, there was one step made by EAL before DAL caved.
Interesting since I found the RJDC and it's named plaintiff's were "fostering hate" and "taking us nowhere". Aside from DL, and UA just outsourcing everything to the regionals and giving you guys "carte blanche" on our flying, how are you not being treated the same? As I see it, we all pay 1.95% to ALPA and it gets distributed as needed so I would argue that regional pilots get much more "bang for their buck" then the mainline pilots. Now, you can continue to hold on to the belief that ALPA holds some magic wand and that someday you'll simply be given a mainline number but that we evil mainline pilots despise you regional pilots and won't let Nat'l wield it.
Or you could get off your a$$ and apply to fly for the airline that controls the code. Novel idea I know. Some of us took the risk and left the comfort of the regional left seat pay check to start all over at the bottom of a mainline carrier.
YHGTBFSM! We make our profits on the international flying along with our business travelers. 737's, Airbuses, and RJ's help move those travelers to the international flights.
The rest of your post has some truth to it, but the truth ends with the "furlough back to the regionals". I can tell you with 100% certainty that at UA we are actively looking at the used market for Airbuses and 737's. As a matter of fact, UA has tabled the 100 seat jet search in favor of more 737-700's and A319's. We are investing $80-$100 mill at DENTK for pilot training. We are hiring 100+ per month.
Total operating income(profits): $2.168 billion
of that, regional portion(profits): $2.044 billion
That is straight out of the last UAL sec filing 10Q.
UAL SEC Filings | United Continental Holdings Stock - Yahoo! Finance
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