Republic Questions
06-28-2014 | 08:11 PM
#1534
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
From: Left
You have misinterpreted my question. My question is not about reserve days or anything else. It is a simple question. How many days off a month do you think a commuter pilot should legitimately have and why? I am not looking for an adversary or trying to be a jerk. I am just asking a legitimate question. Yes, you chose this profession. You are highly trained and educated. I understand that you consider yourself to be of a higher strata than taxi/van drivers and flight attendants.
How about Interns who work 6 to 7 days a week for 65 to 75K a year then? Or Policemen and Firemen who work overtime every week and consequently average 6 days a week so that they can feed their families. Maybe social workers might get your attention. They work ungodly hours, and like Police Officers take their work home emotionally with them and get paid next to nothing for their advanced educations and experience. The list goes on and on, and don't even get me started about small business owners.
They all chose their professions too. The difference between them and some, (and I do not at all mean all or even the majority)of pilots is that they LOVE what they do, and like me, do not consider it work. I am on Job number 7 in 7 years, have never made 100K a year, have been on the bottom of the seniority list forever. Yet, I still love going to "work". I was that cop working 6 to 7 days a week for 22 years and trying to protect my family from the stress and **** soup that I worked in. Now I have a "job", that when someone asks me where I was, I have to pause for a minute and think about it. To have a "job" that when you are off duty, you are truly off duty, and free to live your life is priceless.
Since you mentioned the reserve day, I guess I will chime in on that too. A day that the company pays me to be available to fly a cool plane and still have time to spend with my family, may not be a "day off" but it is as close as you can get in my opinion. BTW, I am in Brussels right now and have a reserve day tomorrow. Since it will be raining, I will go to a museum and a nice restaurant with some crew mates. Of course I will try to remember that it is not really a day off :-)
So I ask again a simple question, How many days off and why?
How about Interns who work 6 to 7 days a week for 65 to 75K a year then? Or Policemen and Firemen who work overtime every week and consequently average 6 days a week so that they can feed their families. Maybe social workers might get your attention. They work ungodly hours, and like Police Officers take their work home emotionally with them and get paid next to nothing for their advanced educations and experience. The list goes on and on, and don't even get me started about small business owners.
They all chose their professions too. The difference between them and some, (and I do not at all mean all or even the majority)of pilots is that they LOVE what they do, and like me, do not consider it work. I am on Job number 7 in 7 years, have never made 100K a year, have been on the bottom of the seniority list forever. Yet, I still love going to "work". I was that cop working 6 to 7 days a week for 22 years and trying to protect my family from the stress and **** soup that I worked in. Now I have a "job", that when someone asks me where I was, I have to pause for a minute and think about it. To have a "job" that when you are off duty, you are truly off duty, and free to live your life is priceless.
Since you mentioned the reserve day, I guess I will chime in on that too. A day that the company pays me to be available to fly a cool plane and still have time to spend with my family, may not be a "day off" but it is as close as you can get in my opinion. BTW, I am in Brussels right now and have a reserve day tomorrow. Since it will be raining, I will go to a museum and a nice restaurant with some crew mates. Of course I will try to remember that it is not really a day off :-)
So I ask again a simple question, How many days off and why?
Flying a "cool" plane doesn't make up for lost days off. Nor does going to a museum in a strange foreign country.
I'm sure you think it's great and so would I. I'd especially like to meet some nice Belgian women
but for how long? If you regularly overnight in Brussels how many times can you go to that museum and still enjoy it?I have no problem with enjoying your job. I enjoy work when I am there, but it's still work.
Again, if you have any responsibility to your company at all it is not a day off. That was my original point.
06-29-2014 | 03:00 AM
#1535
VHR-very happily retired
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From: Retired
4 4 days.
Flying a "cool" plane doesn't make up for lost days off. Nor does going to a museum in a strange foreign country.
I'm sure you think it's great and so would I. I'd especially like to meet some nice Belgian women but for how long? If you regularly overnight in Brussels how many times can you go to that museum and still enjoy it?
I have no problem with enjoying your job. I enjoy work when I am there, but it's still work.
Again, if you have any responsibility to your company at all it is not a day off. That was my original point.
Flying a "cool" plane doesn't make up for lost days off. Nor does going to a museum in a strange foreign country.
I'm sure you think it's great and so would I. I'd especially like to meet some nice Belgian women
but for how long? If you regularly overnight in Brussels how many times can you go to that museum and still enjoy it?I have no problem with enjoying your job. I enjoy work when I am there, but it's still work.
Again, if you have any responsibility to your company at all it is not a day off. That was my original point.
I was never debating whether it is a day off or not. What I am asking is how many days off do you deserve a month and why?
I will take a stab at it. 8 days off as a national average. Plus one day for each day that you have to commute back and forth to work. If you have to commute in on the day before add a day. If you have to wait to commute home on the day after a trip then add a day. Plus one day for each time you fly over 30 hours on a trip. 30 hours of commuter flight time is enough with out a day off in my opinion.
Lets say you work 4 trips this month with one going over 30 hours and only 2 trips are commutable on the first and last days 8+1+4= 13
As for me? Yes, I love this job, but it is not for everyone. If my children were not adults I would not work here. We work up to 17 day schedules with then 13-14 days off at home. Home based (everyone is based in YIP) with company provided travel. Of the 17 days on the road most months I average 8 or 9 days of flying. As far as overnights. We don't go to the same places enough for me to get tired of any place but New Delhi, India and I haven't been there in 2 months thank God!
BTW. My reserve was canceled as there are no flights to protect. I am now on a 1-7 which mean I can drink if I choose or I could non-rev somewhere. I have no responsibility to even contact the company until 34 hours from now. That is a day off without responsibility but neither I nor the company consider that a "day off" as I am not at home. :-)
If I used your definition of a day off then I would be off some months as much as 18-20 days as they will put us on multiple 1-7s if there are no airplanes to protect where we are. (bad for breaking guarantee but great for sightseeing) If I had kids at home I would find 18-20 days of reserve when not being used, to be much more valuable if I lived in base.
06-29-2014 | 05:52 AM
#1536
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
From: Left
You point is well taken. Any responsibility = no day off. Using your criteria you then have very few days off a month. Your company and Union may be telling you that you have a minimum of 10 days a month off. Do you really? Don't you have a responsibility to your company to be at work on time? Would that not mean that the day early that you commute on is NOT a day off?
I was never debating whether it is a day off or not. What I am asking is how many days off do you deserve a month and why?
I will take a stab at it. 8 days off as a national average. Plus one day for each day that you have to commute back and forth to work. If you have to commute in on the day before add a day. If you have to wait to commute home on the day after a trip then add a day. Plus one day for each time you fly over 30 hours on a trip. 30 hours of commuter flight time is enough with out a day off in my opinion.
Lets say you work 4 trips this month with one going over 30 hours and only 2 trips are commutable on the first and last days 8+1+4= 13
As for me? Yes, I love this job, but it is not for everyone. If my children were not adults I would not work here. We work up to 17 day schedules with then 13-14 days off at home. Home based (everyone is based in YIP) with company provided travel. Of the 17 days on the road most months I average 8 or 9 days of flying. As far as overnights. We don't go to the same places enough for me to get tired of any place but New Delhi, India and I haven't been there in 2 months thank God!
BTW. My reserve was canceled as there are no flights to protect. I am now on a 1-7 which mean I can drink if I choose or I could non-rev somewhere. I have no responsibility to even contact the company until 34 hours from now. That is a day off without responsibility but neither I nor the company consider that a "day off" as I am not at home. :-)
If I used your definition of a day off then I would be off some months as much as 18-20 days as they will put us on multiple 1-7s if there are no airplanes to protect where we are. (bad for breaking guarantee but great for sightseeing) If I had kids at home I would find 18-20 days of reserve when not being used, to be much more valuable if I lived in base.
I was never debating whether it is a day off or not. What I am asking is how many days off do you deserve a month and why?
I will take a stab at it. 8 days off as a national average. Plus one day for each day that you have to commute back and forth to work. If you have to commute in on the day before add a day. If you have to wait to commute home on the day after a trip then add a day. Plus one day for each time you fly over 30 hours on a trip. 30 hours of commuter flight time is enough with out a day off in my opinion.
Lets say you work 4 trips this month with one going over 30 hours and only 2 trips are commutable on the first and last days 8+1+4= 13
As for me? Yes, I love this job, but it is not for everyone. If my children were not adults I would not work here. We work up to 17 day schedules with then 13-14 days off at home. Home based (everyone is based in YIP) with company provided travel. Of the 17 days on the road most months I average 8 or 9 days of flying. As far as overnights. We don't go to the same places enough for me to get tired of any place but New Delhi, India and I haven't been there in 2 months thank God!
BTW. My reserve was canceled as there are no flights to protect. I am now on a 1-7 which mean I can drink if I choose or I could non-rev somewhere. I have no responsibility to even contact the company until 34 hours from now. That is a day off without responsibility but neither I nor the company consider that a "day off" as I am not at home. :-)
If I used your definition of a day off then I would be off some months as much as 18-20 days as they will put us on multiple 1-7s if there are no airplanes to protect where we are. (bad for breaking guarantee but great for sightseeing) If I had kids at home I would find 18-20 days of reserve when not being used, to be much more valuable if I lived in base.
Commuting pilots shouldn't get more days off just because they commute.
My example would give a pilot either 14, or 15 days off depending on how many days are in the month. I think that is fair.
I also haven't had to commute in the day before yet this year. I think I had 2 last year. One of which I traded in to myself to get a different day off.
06-29-2014 | 06:28 AM
#1537
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: E145 FO
You have misinterpreted my question. My question is not about reserve days or anything else. It is a simple question. How many days off a month do you think a commuter pilot should legitimately have and why? I am not looking for an adversary or trying to be a jerk. I am just asking a legitimate question. Yes, you chose this profession. You are highly trained and educated. I understand that you consider yourself to be of a higher strata than taxi/van drivers and flight attendants.
How about Interns who work 6 to 7 days a week for 65 to 75K a year then? Or Policemen and Firemen who work overtime every week and consequently average 6 days a week so that they can feed their families. Maybe social workers might get your attention. They work ungodly hours, and like Police Officers take their work home emotionally with them and get paid next to nothing for their advanced educations and experience. The list goes on and on, and don't even get me started about small business owners.
They all chose their professions too. The difference between them and some, (and I do not at all mean all or even the majority)of pilots is that they LOVE what they do, and like me, do not consider it work. I am on Job number 7 in 7 years, have never made 100K a year, have been on the bottom of the seniority list forever. Yet, I still love going to "work". I was that cop working 6 to 7 days a week for 22 years and trying to protect my family from the stress and **** soup that I worked in. Now I have a "job", that when someone asks me where I was, I have to pause for a minute and think about it. To have a "job" that when you are off duty, you are truly off duty, and free to live your life is priceless.
Since you mentioned the reserve day, I guess I will chime in on that too. A day that the company pays me to be available to fly a cool plane and still have time to spend with my family, may not be a "day off" but it is as close as you can get in my opinion. BTW, I am in Brussels right now and have a reserve day tomorrow. Since it will be raining, I will go to a museum and a nice restaurant with some crew mates. Of course I will try to remember that it is not really a day off :-)
So I ask again a simple question, How many days off and why?
How about Interns who work 6 to 7 days a week for 65 to 75K a year then? Or Policemen and Firemen who work overtime every week and consequently average 6 days a week so that they can feed their families. Maybe social workers might get your attention. They work ungodly hours, and like Police Officers take their work home emotionally with them and get paid next to nothing for their advanced educations and experience. The list goes on and on, and don't even get me started about small business owners.
They all chose their professions too. The difference between them and some, (and I do not at all mean all or even the majority)of pilots is that they LOVE what they do, and like me, do not consider it work. I am on Job number 7 in 7 years, have never made 100K a year, have been on the bottom of the seniority list forever. Yet, I still love going to "work". I was that cop working 6 to 7 days a week for 22 years and trying to protect my family from the stress and **** soup that I worked in. Now I have a "job", that when someone asks me where I was, I have to pause for a minute and think about it. To have a "job" that when you are off duty, you are truly off duty, and free to live your life is priceless.
Since you mentioned the reserve day, I guess I will chime in on that too. A day that the company pays me to be available to fly a cool plane and still have time to spend with my family, may not be a "day off" but it is as close as you can get in my opinion. BTW, I am in Brussels right now and have a reserve day tomorrow. Since it will be raining, I will go to a museum and a nice restaurant with some crew mates. Of course I will try to remember that it is not really a day off :-)
So I ask again a simple question, How many days off and why?
That is frikkn awesome! I gotta get out of this regional racket.
Peace
06-29-2014 | 06:44 AM
#1538
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Legitimate question here for you folks all wound up about days off. You work for a commuter airline. How many days off do you think you should have every month? Keep in mind that the rest of the working world gets 8 a month off. Before you start to rant about your duty hours keep in mind that the cab drivers and a lot of van drivers who take you to your hotels are working 12+ hours shifts 6 days a week. Before you start to complain about the "hourly" wage, which I agree is horrible, think about the flight attendants on your airplanes who are never moving to mainline and will work for their 13-15K a year for their entire career. SOOOO.....how many days off should you have and please justify it.
06-29-2014 | 10:02 AM
#1539
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,154
Likes: 18
Me deciding to not live in base really shouldn't be considered "responsibility to the company." It's not the companies fault that I don't want to live in one of their crew bases, it's mine.
Commuting pilots shouldn't get more days off just because they commute.
My example would give a pilot either 14, or 15 days off depending on how many days are in the month. I think that is fair.
I also haven't had to commute in the day before yet this year. I think I had 2 last year. One of which I traded in to myself to get a different day off.
Commuting pilots shouldn't get more days off just because they commute.
My example would give a pilot either 14, or 15 days off depending on how many days are in the month. I think that is fair.
I also haven't had to commute in the day before yet this year. I think I had 2 last year. One of which I traded in to myself to get a different day off.
06-29-2014 | 11:05 AM
#1540
VHR-very happily retired
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
From: Retired
EMB If you are interested Connie is hiring.
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