Atlas Houston
12-21-2019, 07:43 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by Csy Mon
No problem firing the white males for incompetence, they can’t sue for
discrimination.
Try to fire some poor minority, female, transgender whatever for lack of performance or common sense and your operation be toast..
Way back with Tower Air we were 100% white males. The Feds told us to change that and hire some minority or they would do it for us.
We hired a white female co-pilot but the Saudis did not want her for the haj contracts and guys senior to her had to sit reserve in Jeddah instead. (Not her fault, but not fair to the male guys either)
The US State Department should have kicked in and demanded common sense, but oil and defense money was much more important.
She is now a thorn in Delta’s hide and she wrote books..
discrimination.
Try to fire some poor minority, female, transgender whatever for lack of performance or common sense and your operation be toast..
Way back with Tower Air we were 100% white males. The Feds told us to change that and hire some minority or they would do it for us.
We hired a white female co-pilot but the Saudis did not want her for the haj contracts and guys senior to her had to sit reserve in Jeddah instead. (Not her fault, but not fair to the male guys either)
The US State Department should have kicked in and demanded common sense, but oil and defense money was much more important.
She is now a thorn in Delta’s hide and she wrote books..
12-21-2019, 07:52 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Csy Mon
No problem firing the white males for incompetence, they can’t sue for
discrimination.
Try to fire some poor minority, female, transgender whatever for lack of performance or common sense and your operation be toast..
Way back with Tower Air we were 100% white males. The Feds told us to change that and hire some minority or they would do it for us.
We hired a white female co-pilot but the Saudis did not want her for the haj contracts and guys senior to her had to sit reserve in Jeddah instead. (Not her fault, but not fair to the male guys either)
The US State Department should have kicked in and demanded common sense, but oil and defense money was much more important.
She is now a thorn in Delta’s hide and she wrote books..
discrimination.
Try to fire some poor minority, female, transgender whatever for lack of performance or common sense and your operation be toast..
Way back with Tower Air we were 100% white males. The Feds told us to change that and hire some minority or they would do it for us.
We hired a white female co-pilot but the Saudis did not want her for the haj contracts and guys senior to her had to sit reserve in Jeddah instead. (Not her fault, but not fair to the male guys either)
The US State Department should have kicked in and demanded common sense, but oil and defense money was much more important.
She is now a thorn in Delta’s hide and she wrote books..
Bwahahahaaaaaaaaaaa
12-21-2019, 01:47 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 659
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, FAA is not, and should not be, in the business of managing HR stuff for airlines or pilots.
Conventional wisdom in the real world is to NOT include adverse information on your resume... it's your marketing tool. I would not hold that against an applicant at all. He had of course better be honest on the application and interview.
If the company needs to know about short/unsuccessful periods of employment, they need to ask you (on the app or interview).
The flaw in the current system is that while PRIA is legally mandated, if the applicant doesn't admit to previous employment and doesn't fill out a PRIA form then it's hard for an employer to find out. The FAA PRD will fix that, at least as far as employers which are required to participate.
The fundamental issue here is that our hero lied. That's happened before, and is why we got PRIA and eventually PRD. I think the PRIA functions should be consolidated into PRD, the whole process of spam mailing government forms to previous employers is cumbersome and was developed in the 1990's... before the interwebs were really a thing.
The pilot shortage is of course an aggravating factor... in the past airline employers did not like applicants with mysterious gaps in their record. That year off you spent backpacking through upper mongolia could cost you jobs as a pilot... they assumed you were either in prison or flying dope for the cartels, and it was hard and/or expensive to satisfy themselves otherwise. Next applicant.
Conventional wisdom in the real world is to NOT include adverse information on your resume... it's your marketing tool. I would not hold that against an applicant at all. He had of course better be honest on the application and interview.
If the company needs to know about short/unsuccessful periods of employment, they need to ask you (on the app or interview).
The flaw in the current system is that while PRIA is legally mandated, if the applicant doesn't admit to previous employment and doesn't fill out a PRIA form then it's hard for an employer to find out. The FAA PRD will fix that, at least as far as employers which are required to participate.
The fundamental issue here is that our hero lied. That's happened before, and is why we got PRIA and eventually PRD. I think the PRIA functions should be consolidated into PRD, the whole process of spam mailing government forms to previous employers is cumbersome and was developed in the 1990's... before the interwebs were really a thing.
The pilot shortage is of course an aggravating factor... in the past airline employers did not like applicants with mysterious gaps in their record. That year off you spent backpacking through upper mongolia could cost you jobs as a pilot... they assumed you were either in prison or flying dope for the cartels, and it was hard and/or expensive to satisfy themselves otherwise. Next applicant.
12-21-2019, 03:25 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,350
That wouldn't work at other airlines. Most of us can think of sitting at a regional, watching a guy get pulled out of an indoc. class who failed to disclose something. There was a failure of due diligence on Atlas' part.
12-21-2019, 04:54 PM
#66
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 664
I'm just shocked that this is how PRIA works. I guess I'm naive or something but while completing PRIA docs for my many airline interviews I always assumed the airlines could see every airline you'd worked for.
Or at least they could see every airline you'd had some kind of checking event for, but they couldn't see how your training went at those airlines (until you sent them the PRIA docs). So if you didn't put whatever airlines you'd worked for on PRIA docs you were automatically hiding something and hosed.
Or maybe that's how it works at airlines that bother to do any kind of actual checking themselves.
Oh and who thinks Atlas would have still hired this guy even if they'd know his full airline history?
Or at least they could see every airline you'd had some kind of checking event for, but they couldn't see how your training went at those airlines (until you sent them the PRIA docs). So if you didn't put whatever airlines you'd worked for on PRIA docs you were automatically hiding something and hosed.
Or maybe that's how it works at airlines that bother to do any kind of actual checking themselves.
Oh and who thinks Atlas would have still hired this guy even if they'd know his full airline history?
12-21-2019, 06:19 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Pilot
Posts: 1,133
I don't think anyone has mentioned that we are only required to fill out PRIA paperwork going back five years. Since this guy was at Air Whisky and CommutAir back in 2011, I can see why he wouldn't have filled out the PRIA paperwork. I was in 2 interviews just over a year ago, and we were instructed only to fill out a PRIA form for each airline within the last five years. I had a CFII failure as well as a 121 failure back in 2004 and 2007, so naturally I did as instructed. My 121 failure would have never came up. Of course, the good pilot I am, they were all listed on my application with my employer.
Perhaps PRIA records should go back much farther if not your entire career? Truckers have better records kept from the DOT.
I got the FAA to send me all my records about five years ago and it has everything in it. It took about six weeks to get though. I just checked my PRD and nothing is listed on there.
Perhaps PRIA records should go back much farther if not your entire career? Truckers have better records kept from the DOT.
I got the FAA to send me all my records about five years ago and it has everything in it. It took about six weeks to get though. I just checked my PRD and nothing is listed on there.
12-21-2019, 06:32 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,350
Originally Posted by Peacock
Obviously something is wrong if just omitting information from your application can hide a history of training failures. This guy apparently failed his way through four regionals (and four different planes) in six years. I guess it’s still up to an airline if they want to go for it, but it’s ridiculous that an applicant can apparently hide that information.
The problem is that the hiring airline actually has to read the materials they receive. In our case, for example, we received the FO's records from Mesa. We just didn't open the emails. So even when we received information about a guy, we acted like he had no negative training history.
12-21-2019, 07:09 PM
#69
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 638
Don't forget Atlas also requires a full FBI background check to get hired (for DOD contracts). They would of known about every airline even the ones not disclosed on a PRIA from the IRS paper trail.
Atlas just didn't care.
Atlas just didn't care.
12-21-2019, 09:37 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Again....if the guy applied to a job and didn’t have the requirements, that isn’t on the FAA as long as he gained what he did have legally.
At my previous regional I believe it was a one-off. At other airlines it is sounding like a matter of routine. I’m not all that comfortable with FAA tracking individual applicants and pilots but I would possibly be ok with pressure on airlines to do their homework and ensure their hiring qualified individuals. I guess the try with the current system, must need some tweaking.
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