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Malaysian 777 missing

Old 03-14-2014, 07:42 AM
  #311  
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I'm still going with Snakes on the Plane!

Mods won't let me post the You Tube vid, due to language, but check out Samuel Jackson's rant, "Strap in people we are going to open some windows!"
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:51 AM
  #312  
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Default MH0370- 777 FMS question

Hello all. The latest news about "new" waypoints being flown on MH0370 has me stumped.
I, like all of you are trying to figure this mystery out.
I fly the MD11 and have a question for you 777 guys/gals. I'm wondering if they had had a dual FMC failure and were down to using the standby flight plan? Here is my question to all of you.
Early in my 17 years on the airplane, I once caught, during flight, that the standby flight plan in MCDU3 had been activated (once activated it is out of the loop as far as cross talking between MCDU 1and 2) and while we were over the North Pacific, enroute to Japan, our standby flight plan still had a flight plan that was from 3 days prior with a flight from Germany to the US!
Since then, during my preflight, I ensure that the standby flight plan is not "active" in the #3 MCDU in order that all 3 can cross talk.
Does the FMS in the 777 have the same logic when the Standby Flight plan has been activated due to a dual FMC failure?
I can't see an 18,000 hour LCA having an issue with this. The F/O was in training (or had relatively recently transitioned to the A/C) and had the Captain become incapacitated for any reason (strictly conjecture on my part), could this have played a role?
Thank you,
fbh
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:55 AM
  #313  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post



KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA—Following a host of conflicting reports in the wake of the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 last Saturday, representatives from the Kuala Lumpur–based carrier acknowledged they had widened their investigation into the vanished Boeing 777 aircraft today to encompass not only the possibilities of mechanical failure, pilot error, terrorist activity, or a botched hijacking, but also the overarching scope of space, time, and humankind’s place in the universe.

The airline, now in its fifth day of searching for the passenger jet carrying 239 passengers and crew, has come under fire for its perceived mishandling of the investigation, whose confusing and contradictory reports have failed to provide definitive answers on everything from how long the missing plane remained aloft after losing contact with air traffic controllers, to whether the flight made a radical alteration in its heading, to the very dimensions of space-time and the nature of reality, and what exactly it is that brought us into existence and imbued us with this thing we call life.

Additionally, the airline confirmed it had expanded its active search area to include a several-hundred-square-mile zone in the Indian Ocean as well as each of the seven or 22 additional spatial dimensions posited by string theory.

“We continue to do everything in our power and explore every possible lead—both Cartesian and phenomenological—to locate the aircraft as quickly as possible,” said Malaysia’s civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, who went on to say that authorities were still actively seeking tips from anyone claiming knowledge related either to the flight, or to the mechanisms by which consciousness arises, or to the question of why anything physical and finite exists instead of nothing at all. “At this stage, we can’t rule anything out: not crew interference with the transponders, not a catastrophic electrical failure, not the emergence of a complex topological feature of space-time such as an Einstein-Rosen bridge that could have deposited the flight at any location in the universe or a different time period altogether, nothing.”

“Could a parallel universe have immediately swelled up from random cosmological fluctuation according to the multiverse theory and swallowed the flight into its folds, or could ice have built up on an airspeed sensor? Those are both options we are currently considering,” Rahman added. “Everything’s on the table. That is, insofar as anything exists at all, which we’re also looking into.”

Rahman assured the press and families of passengers that officials would not rest until they locate the plane, provided that sensory experience can be verified beyond the existence of one’s own mind. Malaysian authorities also cautioned that they were dealing with an unprecedented aviation mystery and that it could take months to ascertain the airliner’s exact fate as well as, for that matter, the fate of mankind itself, assuming a linear theory of space-time in which the future is unknowable and objects travel in a forward trajectory which, authorities hasten to add, is not necessarily the case.

In addition, airline sources attempted to assuage an uneasy public by noting they had brought in top crash investigators from the Malaysian, Vietnamese, and Chinese governments, as well as U.S. Navy personnel, Boeing technicians, leading quantum physicists, theoretical cosmologists, metaphysicians, epistemologists, and determinist philosophers to help scour all conceivable and as yet inconceivable locations in which the plane might be located.

“The bottom line is that we have a sophisticated aircraft fresh off a safety inspection with no prior incident of malfunction, flying in good weather at a cruising altitude,” Rahman continued. “Why didn’t the pilot send a distress signal? Why aren’t we finding a debris path? What are we to make of the contradictory radar information? Where did the universe begin and can it be said to have a limit or an edge? What is mankind’s role in it? Is there a God? If so, what is God’s nature?”

“It’s too early to answer these questions right now, but I can assure you that Malaysia Airlines will get to the bottom of it,” Rahman added. “Our top people are on it right now.”


Malaysia Airlines Expands Investigation To Include General Scope Of Space, Time | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
I think Stephen Hawking addresses this in his book, A Brief History of Time. And I think he came up with a conclusion already.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:42 AM
  #314  
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Now that's some heavy stuff, Clamp. To exclude nothing at this stage is probably a smart move, but to dwell on a rare cosmological event or the reality of existence itself is quite a leap. Before we can go there, we'll need a few more bridges. Parts of the quoted statement, if true, are signs of desperation or red herrings. If you hear the sound of hoofs in North Texas or on the Asian Steppes, chances are it's not a zebra, let alone existence collapsing.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:50 AM
  #315  
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Originally Posted by 9780991975808 View Post
Now that's some heavy stuff, Clamp. To exclude nothing at this stage is probably a smart move, but to dwell on a rare cosmological event or the reality of existence itself is quite a leap. Before we can go there, we'll need a few more bridges. Parts of the quoted statement, if true, are signs of desperation or red herrings. If you hear the sound of hoofs in North Texas or on the Asian Steppes, chances are it's not a zebra, let alone existence collapsing.
The Onion, best news outlet of all time.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:50 AM
  #316  
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Sounding like whomever was flying this plane west over the Indian Ocean didn't want any gas in the tanks when it crashed into the ocean.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:56 AM
  #317  
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Originally Posted by plt32173 View Post
Sounding like whomever was flying this plane west over the Indian Ocean didn't want any gas in the tanks when it crashed into the ocean.
Or to possibly not be over a population center.

Last edited by savall; 03-14-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:22 PM
  #318  
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Originally Posted by frozenboxhauler View Post
Hello all. The latest news about "new" waypoints being flown on MH0370 has me stumped.
I, like all of you are trying to figure this mystery out.
I fly the MD11 and have a question for you 777 guys/gals. I'm wondering if they had had a dual FMC failure and were down to using the standby flight plan? Here is my question to all of you.
Early in my 17 years on the airplane, I once caught, during flight, that the standby flight plan in MCDU3 had been activated (once activated it is out of the loop as far as cross talking between MCDU 1and 2) and while we were over the North Pacific, enroute to Japan, our standby flight plan still had a flight plan that was from 3 days prior with a flight from Germany to the US!
Since then, during my preflight, I ensure that the standby flight plan is not "active" in the #3 MCDU in order that all 3 can cross talk.
Does the FMS in the 777 have the same logic when the Standby Flight plan has been activated due to a dual FMC failure?
I can't see an 18,000 hour LCA having an issue with this. The F/O was in training (or had relatively recently transitioned to the A/C) and had the Captain become incapacitated for any reason (strictly conjecture on my part), could this have played a role?
Thank you,
fbh
I flew Delta's MD11's for 4 years (1996-2000), and I've been on the 777 for the past 8 years. The 777 is not nearly as automated as the MD11. In the 777, you have to turn on all the pumps and packs on the overhead, whereas in the MD, it does all that for you. It doesn't have a "standby flight plan" and the third MCDU is rarely used for anything, other than Sat Com calls or calling the F/A's in Door mode. It doesn't do "Route Copy" either.

It only has Route 1 and Route 2. We only use Route 2 to load our ETPs and our divert airports. It gets reloaded every time we load a new Route 1, unless we are flying a short domestic leg, like ATL-LAX, where we are not going to load a Route 2 with divert airports.

If you lose both FMS heads you can use the third head for Standby Nav, but it's not going to jump over to Route 2 by itself, you have to activate and execute Route 2.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:30 PM
  #319  
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I've got a few questions, but I'm not a B-777 guy, so they may be irrelevant.

Was the ACARS MEL'd inop? If the engine data is passed via ACARS and the system wasn't working from the get-go, there would be no data transmitted. That's when the crew does manual engine data checks and logs them in the maintenance log book to be checked later. Was this aircraft SATCOM equipped? Was this specific aircraft ETOPS certified - or did it need to be? Was there a fuel system MEL? Has anybody checked the fuel slips? When those fans stop turning and everything turns dark - no electrical or hydraulic - NOTHING gets transmitted. I suspect fuel remaining from the previous flight on this aircraft would have allowed them to fly for about an hour???!!!

Had the crew logged onto CPDLC? In that area, WSJC would have been appropriate, and regardless of the transponder, the aircraft would have been pinged for location data. A change in altitude would/should have been noticed on CPDLC and may have resulted in an electronic query from the appropriate controller. The next sector - VVTS - Ho Chi Minh - would have received the hand-off from WSJC and electronic communications established. On my flight from WMKP-RCTP (Penang-Taipei) three days ago, Ho Chi Minh asked us to log on to CPDLC so they could communicate electronically while in radar contact.

For those not familiar with flying on that part of the planet, long range communications are primitive. HF position reports are on radio frequencies that are shared with India, Singapore, Philippines, and Viet Nam on occasion. That segment was short enough that when Lumpur Control said "radar service terminated, check in with Ho Chi Minh at [xxxxx point], there likely was no radar coverage. NONE. Controllers depend on position reports to do manual plots of our position. This isn't like a U.S. domestic flight where ARTCC knows the location of every aircraft all the time. Based on mach number, time estimates at each compulsory reporting point, the long range controllers can reasonably track us (PTAPTP), and still maintain aircraft separation at about 50 NM.

This should be an eye-opener for every airline on the planet. Countries aren't investing to ensure all this new technology (CPDLC, ADS-B) can be used. We rely on WW II technology radios for 21st century communications in many places when NOT in radar contact.

V/R,
Nakazawa
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:45 PM
  #320  
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
I flew Delta's MD11's for 4 years (1996-2000), and I've been on the 777 for the past 8 years. The 777 is not nearly as automated as the MD11. In the 777, you have to turn on all the pumps and packs on the overhead, whereas in the MD, it does all that for you. It doesn't have a "standby flight plan" and the third MCDU is rarely used for anything, other than Sat Com calls or calling the F/A's in Door mode. It doesn't do "Route Copy" either.

It only has Route 1 and Route 2. We only use Route 2 to load our ETPs and our divert airports. It gets reloaded every time we load a new Route 1, unless we are flying a short domestic leg, like ATL-LAX, where we are not going to load a Route 2 with divert airports.

If you lose both FMS heads you can use the third head for Standby Nav, but it's not going to jump over to Route 2 by itself, you have to activate and execute Route 2.
Thank you, Timbo! That answers my question.
Cheers,
fbh
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