Malaysian 777 missing
03-24-2014, 01:54 PM
#811
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
We have automatic position reporting, which gives a standard position report; time over fix, altitude, fuel, winds, next fix, etc. and we can upload a Route 1 and Route 2 and performance data from our ops, but I don't think the ACARS reports our entire route, start to finish, to ATC or anyone else, just the next two points with every automatic position report. Otherwise why would ATC constantly be asking us to verify our routing? (happens a lot in the middle east and on every coast in)
From what I've been hearing in the press, Malaysian didn't buy the more expensive ACARS package, which gives more data, or the Sat Com.
From what I've been hearing in the press, Malaysian didn't buy the more expensive ACARS package, which gives more data, or the Sat Com.
03-24-2014, 01:58 PM
#812
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by Fly4hire
Not so fast. What is range and loiter time of GH, and even if practical is limited asset required for higher priority tasking?
The super high res spy satellites are not geosynchronous orbit over the middle of the Indian Ocean, but regular orbits that take them over areas of high interest like NK, Russia, ME, etc, not the IO
The super high res spy satellites are not geosynchronous orbit over the middle of the Indian Ocean, but regular orbits that take them over areas of high interest like NK, Russia, ME, etc, not the IO
03-24-2014, 02:18 PM
#813
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 281
Well there is AD 2012-13-05 calling for the replacement of the oxygen hoses in the cockpit. This was brought about by a ground fire on a foreign carrier that burned a hole in the side of the fuselage on the right side. Seems a metal spring in the hose chaffed and made an electrical arc. The AD was issued on August 16, 2012 and gives the US operators 18 months to comply. The mandatory comply by date would be at the end of February 2014.
03-24-2014, 05:08 PM
#814
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B757 Ca, Retired.
Posts: 195
If you have been watching CNN or any of the other networks you may have noticed I am one of the commenters, I have been in NYC the last two days just to be in studio. The firm I am with does this kind of work for two reasons; 1) It gets out more accurate information than most of the pundits and 2) It helps us generate business by being the guys who are seen as credible in this business.
Take everything you hear from the media with a grain of salt and consider for yourself if what you are hearing passes the smell test. I try not to let the hosts bait me into making inaccurate comments, but sometimes we all do.
Take everything you hear from the media with a grain of salt and consider for yourself if what you are hearing passes the smell test. I try not to let the hosts bait me into making inaccurate comments, but sometimes we all do.
03-24-2014, 05:41 PM
#815
Junior Senior
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Whiskey Papa
Posts: 2,850
Am I missing something? How can the Malaysians proclaim the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean and all are dead without any physical proof? This whole tragedy has smelled to high heaven since Day 1. Those poor families........ 
03-24-2014, 06:22 PM
#816
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by LNL76
Am I missing something? How can the Malaysians proclaim the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean and all are dead without any physical proof? This whole tragedy has smelled to high heaven since Day 1. Those poor families........
They said the basis was british satelite data and that they can't start searching again until Wednesday due to weather.
My guess is that they needed to bring some kind of closure. It's been how many days and many of the families are being shuffled around hotels while waiting for news when they don't know if any is going to come. The families need to hear it, and be allowed to move on.
03-24-2014, 06:58 PM
#817
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Just in case anyone is interested in how Inmarsat came to their conclusion ...
Thanks to data from a satellite communications provider, we now have a clear picture of Malaysian Airlines flight 370’s tragic final destination, plus or minus 100 miles. Unfortunately, that position is at the bottom of the Southern Indian Ocean. Using a scientific model based on the Doppler shift in signals from MH377 (another Malaysian Airlines' flight) and other aircraft following similar routes, engineers at Inmarsat were able to narrow the area of search for the missing aircraft to an area in the Indian ocean west of Perth, Australia.
The Inmarsat satellite that picked up the “pings” from the aircraft, Inmarsat-3 F1, was launched in 1996. It has no positioning system capabilities aboard, but it has a geostationary orbit at 64.5 degrees east longitude. Based on its relatively fixed position, engineers were able to narrow the location of the plane down with an initial analysis of the Doppler effect on the signal from the flight’s pings and the plane’s approximate altitude. That early analysis showed that the plane had to be within two possible arcs: one to the north, which would have taken it over land, and one to the south over the ocean. After that information was provided to Malaysian officials on March 12, Inmarsat engineers continued to perform analysis of the data by creating models for how the signal would have been shifted by the Doppler effect over the northern and southern paths.
To build that model, the engineers used data from the signals of other aircraft with similar routes. The company then compared the model to the data from MH370 and found an “extraordinary matching” of the plane’s signals to the expected models for the southern path, according to Chris McLaughlin, senior vice president of external affairs at Inmarsat, speaking with the Telegraph.
Based on the data from the MH370's last pings, Australian and US National Transportation Safety Board investigators were able to narrow the search area down to three percent of the “southern corridor” the aircraft might have followed.
"All we believe we can do is to say that we believe it is in this general location,” McLaughlin said. ”But we cannot give you the final few feet and inches where it landed. It's not that sort of system."
The Inmarsat satellite that picked up the “pings” from the aircraft, Inmarsat-3 F1, was launched in 1996. It has no positioning system capabilities aboard, but it has a geostationary orbit at 64.5 degrees east longitude. Based on its relatively fixed position, engineers were able to narrow the location of the plane down with an initial analysis of the Doppler effect on the signal from the flight’s pings and the plane’s approximate altitude. That early analysis showed that the plane had to be within two possible arcs: one to the north, which would have taken it over land, and one to the south over the ocean. After that information was provided to Malaysian officials on March 12, Inmarsat engineers continued to perform analysis of the data by creating models for how the signal would have been shifted by the Doppler effect over the northern and southern paths.
To build that model, the engineers used data from the signals of other aircraft with similar routes. The company then compared the model to the data from MH370 and found an “extraordinary matching” of the plane’s signals to the expected models for the southern path, according to Chris McLaughlin, senior vice president of external affairs at Inmarsat, speaking with the Telegraph.
Based on the data from the MH370's last pings, Australian and US National Transportation Safety Board investigators were able to narrow the search area down to three percent of the “southern corridor” the aircraft might have followed.
"All we believe we can do is to say that we believe it is in this general location,” McLaughlin said. ”But we cannot give you the final few feet and inches where it landed. It's not that sort of system."
Last edited by Nosmo King; 03-24-2014 at 06:59 PM. Reason: spelling
03-24-2014, 07:23 PM
#818
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Well if it's really in the sea I can't fathom any explanation other than a diversion to an alternate airport followed by something that rendered the crew and everyone else unconscious. I just can't believe a suicide would happen like this. I hope they're wrong.
03-24-2014, 08:40 PM
#819
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
There are really only three possibilities: aircraft failure, crew involvement, or hijack.
Crew involvement or hijack are the most likely given the record of past events of this type.
Anything else is just too far flung given what we now know, despite wild claims by a paid General.
Crew involvement or hijack are the most likely given the record of past events of this type.
Anything else is just too far flung given what we now know, despite wild claims by a paid General.
03-24-2014, 10:17 PM
#820
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by Mazster
The Washington Post reports in one of its stories re the timeline that at 1:07 local the last ACARS message was received and that according to U.S. officials it denoted that a change of course was programmed into the FMS. This was later refuted by the Malaysian government…whom are we to believe. Sometime shortly after that 1:07 xmision the data stream to ACARS was terminated…there was no 1:37 data stream. At 1:19 ATC receives the “Alright, Goodnight” voice xmision.
Question…IF the ACARS data packet does include the FMS flight plan program, could a change have been entered and detected without it having been executed? This would mean that it could have been entered anytime after the 12:40 takeoff. We are being told that the course did not change until after the xponder shut down after the 1:19 contact.
I’m sorry if I am not expressing myself as clearly as possible, but I am curious to understand the sequence of events early on in the flight. Thanks.
Question…IF the ACARS data packet does include the FMS flight plan program, could a change have been entered and detected without it having been executed? This would mean that it could have been entered anytime after the 12:40 takeoff. We are being told that the course did not change until after the xponder shut down after the 1:19 contact.
I’m sorry if I am not expressing myself as clearly as possible, but I am curious to understand the sequence of events early on in the flight. Thanks.
I would forget theorizing and worrying about possible alternate flight plans entered into the FMS prior to lost comms. It would be just as easy to put a waypoint into the FIX page, then manually slewing the heading bug to manually entered fix and turning via heading bug selection.
What is claimed about flight plan entry prior to lost comms is irrelevant; we'll probably never know with certainty what was entered into the FMS. Right now they just need to find the first floating seat cushion or piece of wing.
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