Malaysian 777 missing
03-19-2014, 08:01 AM
#721
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 1,211
Originally Posted by CRM114
Did this flight use CPDLC/ADS, FANS 1/A? Did the flight's FMC downlink a changed route via ACAARS (and if so why don't they look at the last waypoint in that downlink)? If CPDLC was used, there is the ability to uplink a new route, and if the crew accepted and executed an upload the aircraft would fly that route (on AP).
Just curious how sure they are of a pilot installed/uplinked a FMC flight plan vs. a heading select course on AP.
PS. To the media cursing this thread for info, please stop embarrassing yourselves.
03-19-2014, 08:03 AM
#722
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 2,115
Originally Posted by abelenky
On this point, I disagree. Once data has been overwritten once, it becomes very difficult to recover; essentially you'd just be looking for a weak "shadow" signal of the previous magnetic bit.
Once data has been overwritten 4 or more times, it is absolutely impossible to figure out what was there before. And most off-the-shelf data wiping tools will do multiple overwrites.
If there is any source/evidence that a government agency can recover data that has been specifically wiped, I'm willing to listen. But short of that evidence, the idea goes against everything i know about hardware, software, and physics.
Once data has been overwritten 4 or more times, it is absolutely impossible to figure out what was there before. And most off-the-shelf data wiping tools will do multiple overwrites.
If there is any source/evidence that a government agency can recover data that has been specifically wiped, I'm willing to listen. But short of that evidence, the idea goes against everything i know about hardware, software, and physics.
03-19-2014, 08:25 AM
#723
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 639
Originally Posted by Softpayman
I'm thinking a lot of this info is coming off the ADS-B. It looks like among the info it sends is a sort of Position report including next waypoints. If you had reprogrammed your 2nd and 3rd next fixes it would appear here. And it sounds like it was there 12 mins prior to the final ATC transmission.
03-19-2014, 08:54 AM
#724
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by abelenky
On this point, I disagree. Once data has been overwritten once, it becomes very difficult to recover; essentially you'd just be looking for a weak "shadow" signal of the previous magnetic bit.
Once data has been overwritten 4 or more times, it is absolutely impossible to figure out what was there before. And most off-the-shelf data wiping tools will do multiple overwrites.
If there is any source/evidence that a government agency can recover data that has been specifically wiped, I'm willing to listen. But short of that evidence, the idea goes against everything i know about hardware, software, and physics.
Once data has been overwritten 4 or more times, it is absolutely impossible to figure out what was there before. And most off-the-shelf data wiping tools will do multiple overwrites.
If there is any source/evidence that a government agency can recover data that has been specifically wiped, I'm willing to listen. But short of that evidence, the idea goes against everything i know about hardware, software, and physics.
And Edward Snowden has said that properly implemented "encryption works".
The folks who seem to think that the NSA has divine powers don't know anything about computers or forensics.
The way law enforcement "breaks encryption" is to depend on keyloggers or sticky notes with passwords on them. They "recover data" when people hit the "delete" key, not when they deliberately overwrite data.
I, too, am willing to listen to evidence to the contrary.
I haven't seen any.
03-19-2014, 10:05 AM
#725
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Posts: 1,349
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Unless the HDDs were melted down, government agencies can probably recover the data if they want it bad enough.
on the home computer / simulator.
03-19-2014, 10:29 AM
#727
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: FAA ATSI VSRP ERC
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by RhinoPherret
Yep. I can see it now. Feds mandate GoPros on every flight deck with auto upload to YouTube. That will surely solve any future dilemmas of this nature. 
A possible grand idea hatched from a hoot that was forced to resign suddenly becuase he was so inept and despised by just about everyone but possibly Vlad Putin.
A possible grand idea hatched from a hoot that was forced to resign suddenly becuase he was so inept and despised by just about everyone but possibly Vlad Putin.
03-19-2014, 11:16 AM
#728
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by JimFromAustin
Looks like we are getting conflicting info, jungle seems to think it is speculation, and there is no way of knowing for certain. (see above) I also just asked an FMS design buddy of mine about this and he is not aware of this sort of ACARS messaging. Said he would to check on it. Speaking of reporters, just now a guy on the news that was being interviewed essentially said it was bunk that we know for certain the FMS was reprogrammed. Newscaster shut him down fast, (was ruining his whole news drama)
03-19-2014, 11:19 AM
#729
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Nope. It's a non-zero probability, but is virtually zero. All the fire speculation is driving me nuts... we try to get the plane on the ground within 15 minutes with a fire, and it would be even less likely for it to happen exactly at an FIR crossing. This thing kept on going for another 6 hours. There is virtually no logical way that happened with a fire.
That has been my thought re any fire theories...possible, not plausible.
03-19-2014, 12:05 PM
#730
Are we there yet??!!
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,010
Originally Posted by penguin22
FMC route data can get sent to ATC through a mode S transponder.
Those pprune folks talk about it here
ADS and CPDLC - PPRuNe Forums
I've always kept any unofficial waypoints out of Legs 1 just for that reason. I've been told that they can actually see what we have in RTE 2 also
Those pprune folks talk about it here
ADS and CPDLC - PPRuNe Forums
I've always kept any unofficial waypoints out of Legs 1 just for that reason. I've been told that they can actually see what we have in RTE 2 also
At my previous company, we used to use RTE2 to put in ETPs and ETOPS pts. So, I am pretty sure those cannot be seen.
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